4 ms·

For a person of average wealth and income, is a $1000 fine is a more or less severe punishment than a month in jail? Be brief. "For a person of average wealth

For a person of average wealth and income, is a $1000 fine is a more or less severe punishment than a month in jail? Be brief. "For a person of average wealth and income, a $1000 fine is generally less severe than a month in jail. A month in jail entails loss of freedom, potential loss of employment, and social stigma, while a $1000 fine, though financially burdensome, does not affect one's freedom or ability to work" --ChatGPT 4o

Rinzler89 2y ago
What does GPT consider being "average wealth and income". Statistics? Or biased weights from anecdotes he formed on the anecdotes he scraped off the internet on how wealthy people say the feel? Would be cool to know how LLMs shape their opinions.
- LeoPanthera 2y ago
  You can just ask it, you know. GPT-4o: “Average wealth and income” can vary significantly by region and context. However, in the United States, as a rough benchmark, the median household income is around $70,000 per year. Wealth, which includes assets such as savings, property, and investments minus debts, is harder to pinpoint but median net worth for U.S. households is approximately $100,000. These figures provide a general idea of what might be considered “average” in terms of wealth and income."
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >You can just ask it, you know. But my question will not be part of the context of that conversation.
    - LeoPanthera 2y ago
      Mine was. I asked it the first question, first.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        The original conversation I mean, of the grandparent. Me starting an identical conversation will not guarantee an identical context.
  - lambdaxyzw 2y ago
    I like that it immediately assumed the US, even though nothing in your question suggested it. I love that all LLMs have a strong US centric bias. Btw I'm not personally a lawyer, but I've heard that GPT is especially prone to mixing laws across the borders - for example you ask a law question in language X, and get a response that uses a law from a country Y - and it's extremally convincing doing that (unless you're a lawyer, I guess).
    - LordDragonfang 2y ago
      I mean, to be fair, if you're speaking English to it, the most likely possibility is that you're inside the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... I know there's a lot of complaints about things being US-centric, but the US is a very large country.
      - ordersofmag 2y ago
        Well, except the number of English speakers outside the US is much larger than inside the US (as per the wikipedia page you point to) by 5 to 1. Granted many folks are speaking it as their 2nd (or nth) language. But when you take into account the limited set of languages supported by ChatGPT one could reasonably assume English-speaking (typing) users of ChatGPT are from outside the U.S. as non-U.S. folks are in the majority of 'folks for whom english would be their first option when interacting with ChatGPT'. Even if you only count India, Nigeria and Pakistan. Though of course OpenAI can tell (frequently, roughly) where folks are coming from geographically and could (does?) take that into account.
      - duskwuff 2y ago
        > but the US is a very large country. Indeed - the US is a very large country, and consists of over 50 different jurisdictions, each with their own slightly different laws. An answer to a legal question which is correct in one state will often be subtly incorrect in another, and completely wrong in yet another.
    - LeoPanthera 2y ago
johnchristopher 2y ago
"potential loss of employment," Where is that coming from ? That's a very lawyery way to phrase things. "potential ?" where I live I think people may max out their holidays and overtime (if lucky enough) and leave-without-pay but there would be a conversation with your employer to justify it and how to handle the workload. In the USA, from what I read, it's more than likely that you would just be fired on the spot, right ? edit: just googled a bit, where I live you must tell your employer why you will be absent if you go to jail but that can't be used to justify the breaking of the contract unless the reason for the incarceration is damaging to the company and... yeah, I am definitely not a lawyer :]
- EGreg 2y ago
  So the GPT is on a law exam and is using a very lawyer way to word things? I would say that's great!!
- oconnor663 2y ago
  My wild guess is that it would depend a lot on how much your employer likes you and how they feel about the reason you're in jail.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Leave-without-pay normally requires some specific justification(s)/discussion. I've certainly given my manager advanced notice about any longer stretches of vacation and I've tried to do it with awareness of workloads (though for something planned months in advance that's not always possible) but I've pretty much never considered it as asking for permission or it being a negotiation. This is in the US. ADDED: You're probably going to end up lying or at least being very vague "some family stuff to take care of" in this specific scenario but for one month that didn't trigger reporting to employer a lot of professionals could probably get off with it. In any case, the GPT answer seems totally correct for the parameters given.
  - johnchristopher 2y ago
    > ADDED: You're probably going to end up lying or at least being very vague "some family stuff to take care of" in this specific scenario but for one month that didn't trigger reporting to employer a lot of professionals could probably get off with it. In any case, the GPT answer seems totally correct for the parameters given. Where I live that is subject to cancellation of the work contact, you can't lie about why you are absent though the imprisonment can't be cause by itself for laying off.

Rinzler89 2y ago

What does GPT consider being "average wealth and income". Statistics? Or biased weights from anecdotes he formed on the anecdotes he scraped off the internet on how wealthy people say the feel? Would be cool to know how LLMs shape their opinions.

LeoPanthera 2y ago
You can just ask it, you know. GPT-4o: “Average wealth and income” can vary significantly by region and context. However, in the United States, as a rough benchmark, the median household income is around $70,000 per year. Wealth, which includes assets such as savings, property, and investments minus debts, is harder to pinpoint but median net worth for U.S. households is approximately $100,000. These figures provide a general idea of what might be considered “average” in terms of wealth and income."
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >You can just ask it, you know. But my question will not be part of the context of that conversation.
  - LeoPanthera 2y ago
    Mine was. I asked it the first question, first.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      The original conversation I mean, of the grandparent. Me starting an identical conversation will not guarantee an identical context.
- lambdaxyzw 2y ago
  I like that it immediately assumed the US, even though nothing in your question suggested it. I love that all LLMs have a strong US centric bias. Btw I'm not personally a lawyer, but I've heard that GPT is especially prone to mixing laws across the borders - for example you ask a law question in language X, and get a response that uses a law from a country Y - and it's extremally convincing doing that (unless you're a lawyer, I guess).
  - LordDragonfang 2y ago
    I mean, to be fair, if you're speaking English to it, the most likely possibility is that you're inside the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... I know there's a lot of complaints about things being US-centric, but the US is a very large country.
    - ordersofmag 2y ago
      Well, except the number of English speakers outside the US is much larger than inside the US (as per the wikipedia page you point to) by 5 to 1. Granted many folks are speaking it as their 2nd (or nth) language. But when you take into account the limited set of languages supported by ChatGPT one could reasonably assume English-speaking (typing) users of ChatGPT are from outside the U.S. as non-U.S. folks are in the majority of 'folks for whom english would be their first option when interacting with ChatGPT'. Even if you only count India, Nigeria and Pakistan. Though of course OpenAI can tell (frequently, roughly) where folks are coming from geographically and could (does?) take that into account.
    - duskwuff 2y ago
      > but the US is a very large country. Indeed - the US is a very large country, and consists of over 50 different jurisdictions, each with their own slightly different laws. An answer to a legal question which is correct in one state will often be subtly incorrect in another, and completely wrong in yet another.
  - LeoPanthera 2y ago

johnchristopher 2y ago

"potential loss of employment," Where is that coming from ? That's a very lawyery way to phrase things. "potential ?" where I live I think people may max out their holidays and overtime (if lucky enough) and leave-without-pay but there would be a conversation with your employer to justify it and how to handle the workload. In the USA, from what I read, it's more than likely that you would just be fired on the spot, right ? edit: just googled a bit, where I live you must tell your employer why you will be absent if you go to jail but that can't be used to justify the breaking of the contract unless the reason for the incarceration is damaging to the company and... yeah, I am definitely not a lawyer :]

EGreg 2y ago
So the GPT is on a law exam and is using a very lawyer way to word things? I would say that's great!!
oconnor663 2y ago
My wild guess is that it would depend a lot on how much your employer likes you and how they feel about the reason you're in jail.
ghaff 2y ago
Leave-without-pay normally requires some specific justification(s)/discussion. I've certainly given my manager advanced notice about any longer stretches of vacation and I've tried to do it with awareness of workloads (though for something planned months in advance that's not always possible) but I've pretty much never considered it as asking for permission or it being a negotiation. This is in the US. ADDED: You're probably going to end up lying or at least being very vague "some family stuff to take care of" in this specific scenario but for one month that didn't trigger reporting to employer a lot of professionals could probably get off with it. In any case, the GPT answer seems totally correct for the parameters given.
- johnchristopher 2y ago
  > ADDED: You're probably going to end up lying or at least being very vague "some family stuff to take care of" in this specific scenario but for one month that didn't trigger reporting to employer a lot of professionals could probably get off with it. In any case, the GPT answer seems totally correct for the parameters given. Where I live that is subject to cancellation of the work contact, you can't lie about why you are absent though the imprisonment can't be cause by itself for laying off.