4 ms·

USSR lost many people not only because of the German invasion, but also because they had a terrible leader who co-started WW II and misjudged Hitler. And Europe

by effie 2y ago

USSR lost many people not only because of the German invasion, but also because they had a terrible leader who co-started WW II and misjudged Hitler. And Europe and America made sure USSR won that war.

protomolecule 2y ago
Tell me, how long other countries on the European continent fought Nazis? >Europe and America made sure USSR won that war That's funny, almost all of Europe fought along with Nazi with small exceptions like Greeks. And no one in Europe was in position to "make sure the USSR won the war"
- effie 2y ago
  Europe was divided, we know that. My people fought both against USSR and together with it against Germans. History and its significance can't be explained in single historical essay, and it certainly should not be misused to advance one's poor argument.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    [flagged]
- effie 2y ago
  Alright, U.S. and U.K. made sure, and many in Europe helped.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    "U.S. and U.K. made sure" Seriously? 'Helped a little bit' are the right words. And helped only out self-preservation fearing what would happen to them if the USSR loses and its resources become available to Nazis.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      My impression is that they helped a lot: they supplied the USSR with trucks, jeeps, food, clothing, experts in industrial engineering, etc; their ships endured attacks by the German navy to deliver this aid to Soviet ports; their bombing campaigns had the opposite effect on Germany, i.e., to make manufactured goods and things like refined petroleum products a lot more scarce than they would otherwise be.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        Yes, their campaign in Africa too. But compare that to 2/3 (or 4/5 depending on the source) [0] of total Nazi casualties that happened on the Eastern front and now it's not so much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II#OKW_war_diary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War...
        hollerith 2y ago
        The assertion this thread is talking about is, "Europe and America made sure USSR won that war". How many casualties Europe and America took in the course of doing so is a separate question. The US and Britain had competent leaders and an advantageous strategic position, so they were able to make sure the USSR won the war at a cost of relatively few US and British casualties.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        >they were able to make sure the USSR won the war Nope. They helped to tip the balance into the USSR's favor with a little bit of help. The USSR made sure it won. Tell me, why didn't they 'make sure' France won? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk#Evacuation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk#Evacuation
        effie 2y ago
        Helping isn't measured by numbers of killed Nazis. It was about massive material support of the USSR so it was able to fight the aggressor and kill so many Nazis. The West enabled that. Here, from the bigshots from USSR: "Khrushchev went further and admitted: “Several times I heard Stalin acknowledge [Lend-Lease] within the small circle of people around him. He said that . . . if we had had to deal with Germany one-to-one we would not have been able to cope because we lost so much of our country.”" "Perhaps the last word should be left to Marshal Georgy Zhukov, who masterminded the Red Army victories. He admitted, in a bugged conversation in 1963, that without Lend-Lease the USSR “could not have continued the war”." https://www.ft.com/content/8a1709ca-48e2-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441 https://www.ft.com/content/8a1709ca-48e2-11ea-aeb3-955839e06...

by effie 2y ago

protomolecule 2y ago

Tell me, how long other countries on the European continent fought Nazis? >Europe and America made sure USSR won that war That's funny, almost all of Europe fought along with Nazi with small exceptions like Greeks. And no one in Europe was in position to "make sure the USSR won the war"

effie 2y ago
Europe was divided, we know that. My people fought both against USSR and together with it against Germans. History and its significance can't be explained in single historical essay, and it certainly should not be misused to advance one's poor argument.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  [flagged]
effie 2y ago
Alright, U.S. and U.K. made sure, and many in Europe helped.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  "U.S. and U.K. made sure" Seriously? 'Helped a little bit' are the right words. And helped only out self-preservation fearing what would happen to them if the USSR loses and its resources become available to Nazis.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    My impression is that they helped a lot: they supplied the USSR with trucks, jeeps, food, clothing, experts in industrial engineering, etc; their ships endured attacks by the German navy to deliver this aid to Soviet ports; their bombing campaigns had the opposite effect on Germany, i.e., to make manufactured goods and things like refined petroleum products a lot more scarce than they would otherwise be.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      Yes, their campaign in Africa too. But compare that to 2/3 (or 4/5 depending on the source) [0] of total Nazi casualties that happened on the Eastern front and now it's not so much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II#OKW_war_diary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War...
      - hollerith 2y ago
        The assertion this thread is talking about is, "Europe and America made sure USSR won that war". How many casualties Europe and America took in the course of doing so is a separate question. The US and Britain had competent leaders and an advantageous strategic position, so they were able to make sure the USSR won the war at a cost of relatively few US and British casualties.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        >they were able to make sure the USSR won the war Nope. They helped to tip the balance into the USSR's favor with a little bit of help. The USSR made sure it won. Tell me, why didn't they 'make sure' France won? [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk#Evacuation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk#Evacuation
      - effie 2y ago
        Helping isn't measured by numbers of killed Nazis. It was about massive material support of the USSR so it was able to fight the aggressor and kill so many Nazis. The West enabled that. Here, from the bigshots from USSR: "Khrushchev went further and admitted: “Several times I heard Stalin acknowledge [Lend-Lease] within the small circle of people around him. He said that . . . if we had had to deal with Germany one-to-one we would not have been able to cope because we lost so much of our country.”" "Perhaps the last word should be left to Marshal Georgy Zhukov, who masterminded the Red Army victories. He admitted, in a bugged conversation in 1963, that without Lend-Lease the USSR “could not have continued the war”." https://www.ft.com/content/8a1709ca-48e2-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441 https://www.ft.com/content/8a1709ca-48e2-11ea-aeb3-955839e06...