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It’s probably pervasive in second and third tier research universities. It’s not pervasive in top-tier universities. Actually it’s probably not pervasive in eit

It’s probably pervasive in second and third tier research universities. It’s not pervasive in top-tier universities. Actually it’s probably not pervasive in either case, but it happens more in the former.

Der_Einzige 2y ago
Stanford and Harvard just had incidents where their own top researchers got caught doing academic dishonesty of the highest order. The ivy leagues are not doing citation cartels particularly less than tier two or tier three schools.
- __float 2y ago
  Comparing the recent news from Harvard to the long-running scandal at Stanford doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  wasn't it the President of Stanford recently?
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  They had two (or a small number of) high-profile incidents. There have been thousands and thousands of researchers at those Universities during the tenure of those specific researchers. I'm open to an argument that these behaviors are more widespread than the 1/10,000 that these numbers would suggest. But even if it's 10x or 100x worse, that's still around 1%. Not "pervasive."
  - izacus 2y ago
    It's the other way around - this behaviour is so normalized and so common, that it's outright not reported on because it's such a part of daily academic work.
    - matthewdgreen 2y ago
      You have evidence for small rates of fraud, but you have feelings that suggest the numbers are enormous? And nobody reports on outright fraud? This is not my experience, and certainly not even remotely scientific.
almostgotcaught 2y ago
Bruh lol. Thinking it doesn't happen at "top tier" universities is like thinking because the rich don't need to steal they don't. When in reality they steal just as much because why not. I just finished my PhD at a "top tier" university. Everyone plays the same exact tricks. My group all self-cited and our collaborators and back and forth. So there's no such thing as "top tier" as far as the quality goes, there's only higher paid.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

Stanford and Harvard just had incidents where their own top researchers got caught doing academic dishonesty of the highest order. The ivy leagues are not doing citation cartels particularly less than tier two or tier three schools.

__float 2y ago
Comparing the recent news from Harvard to the long-running scandal at Stanford doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
mistrial9 2y ago
wasn't it the President of Stanford recently?
matthewdgreen 2y ago
They had two (or a small number of) high-profile incidents. There have been thousands and thousands of researchers at those Universities during the tenure of those specific researchers. I'm open to an argument that these behaviors are more widespread than the 1/10,000 that these numbers would suggest. But even if it's 10x or 100x worse, that's still around 1%. Not "pervasive."
- izacus 2y ago
  It's the other way around - this behaviour is so normalized and so common, that it's outright not reported on because it's such a part of daily academic work.
  - matthewdgreen 2y ago
    You have evidence for small rates of fraud, but you have feelings that suggest the numbers are enormous? And nobody reports on outright fraud? This is not my experience, and certainly not even remotely scientific.

almostgotcaught 2y ago

Bruh lol. Thinking it doesn't happen at "top tier" universities is like thinking because the rich don't need to steal they don't. When in reality they steal just as much because why not. I just finished my PhD at a "top tier" university. Everyone plays the same exact tricks. My group all self-cited and our collaborators and back and forth. So there's no such thing as "top tier" as far as the quality goes, there's only higher paid.