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Those are incomparable. One is a political influence via civilized methods, money and propaganda. The other is a brutal military aggression. The proper accepta
by effie 2y ago
Those are incomparable. One is a political influence via civilized methods, money and propaganda. The other is a brutal military aggression.
The proper acceptable course of action for Putin & Co. was to compete economically and propagandistically, not invade with soldiers. They tried before with Yanukovich, but in 2014 these russian collaborators lost grip on power, and Putin & Co., instead of folding up graciously, or trying with another helper later again, went insane and tried to force their interests with military methods. That is an escalation that has no moral justification.
- protomolecule 2y agoOverthrowing a democratically elected government in a foreign country is hardly a civilized method. And yes, Putin was competing economically and propagandistically, but when he won and Yanukovich declined to sign a bad [0] agreement, the US, instead of "folding up graciously" like the EU did, said "Fuck the EU" [1] and went ahead with the escalation and supporting the 'revolution'. "has no moral justification" Of course, only Western escalations are always morally justified. [0] http://europe.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong-make-ukraine-pick-between-eu-and-russia-251038?rm=eu http://europe.newsweek.com/german-official-says-it-was-wrong... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
- effie 2y agoIt can be, if done nonviolently, like financial and propagandist support of existing movements. Did American helpers shoot people like Russians do?
- protomolecule 2y agoYeah, then why all the whining about alleged "Russian meddling" in American and European elections?
- effie 2y agoBecause the meddling is happening, people believe it, and western bureaucrats and politicians want to take advantage of this narrative?
- protomolecule 2y agoSo how can one whine about morally good thing?
- effie 2y agoWhat is a good thing here?
- protomolecule 2y ago"Did American helpers shoot people like Russians do?" Their Ukrainian pawns burned alive 42 people in Odessa. [0] And during Maidan protests, the force that fought the police was Ukranian neo-Nazis [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#2_May_city_centre_clashes_and_Trade_Unions_House_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#2_May_city_... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#Entry_into_Euromaidan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector#Entry_into_Euroma...
- effie 2y agoSo an hypothetical sad event where Ukrainian pawns burned 42 people in Ukraine, and few Ukrainian neo-Nazis resisted Ukraine police is comparable or justifies multi-year military agression by RUSSIA that killed hundreds of thousands of people and devastated east/south of Ukraine? Do you think this is a civilized argument?
- protomolecule 2y ago>hypothetical Seriously? >is comparable or justifies That's what escalation is. The American sponsored coup was an escalation. The reunification with Crimea and support for Eastern Ukrainian rebels was an escalation.
- mopsi 2y agoThere was no coup in Ukraine. Yanukovych was removed from office by the constitutional majority of Ukrainian parliament with votes 328-vs-0. Not even a single member of his own party supported him.
- protomolecule 2y ago>by the constitutional majority "Finally, the constitution demands that at least three quarters of the constitutional membership of the Verkhovna Rada vote for the removal of the President in the final step. However, instead of the required 338 parliamentary deputies only 328 voted for the removal of the President." [0] [0] https://www.montesquieu-instituut.nl/9394000/1/j9vvllwqvzjxdyx/vjicc5jt4ayk https://www.montesquieu-instituut.nl/9394000/1/j9vvllwqvzjxd...