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“De-growth”, like communism, is perfectly logical until you start talking about implementation. Then it starts sounding like A Modest Proposal. Who has to sacri

“De-growth”, like communism, is perfectly logical until you start talking about implementation. Then it starts sounding like A Modest Proposal. Who has to sacrifice? Who isn’t allowed to build, or have kids, or use specific technology? I have this funny suspicion it would end up being poor people

Earw0rm 2y ago
And who ends up paying in a world that doesn't get its act together on sustainability? Hell, who's paying right now? Who's had their country invaded or their political system up-ended to keep cheap oil and cheap goods flowing to the West? I'm not saying degrowthers have all the answers, but any critique should be weighed even-handedly against a realistic view of the shortcomings of what we have now and where it's taking us.
- corinroyal 2y ago
  Seriously. Poor people in Mexico and India are frying in their homes right now while monkeys drop out of trees.
pillefitz 2y ago
Unlike communism, it's not a centrally enforced ideology, but something that either happens in a controlled or unontrolled fashion.
n4ture 2y ago
Who talked about sacrifice? De-growth is not about sacrifice, it's about changing the perspective on what is considered "good" and "desirable". I don't know why people are always so scared of de-growth, what you are describing with sacrifices is about decolonialism and global equalization. Ultimately if you are against such changes, you should champion neo-colonialism and make sure to promote racism so that you don't have to sacrifice anything and continue living at the expense of the poorer parts of the world...
- subjectsigma 2y ago
  When I think “de-growth”, one of the first things I think of is China’s One-Child Policy. 1. How does the OCP “stop” colonialism? 2. If what you mean by “changing the perspective on good and desirable” is restricting who can have children and who can’t, then obviously people are going to be upset with you?
  - n4ture 2y ago
    Ok, then we don't have the same definition of de-growth. China is very much growth oriented, although in a different way than the collective West. 2. I think that has more to do with eugenics than degrowth, degrowth is asking how many children is desirable, if you want 10 children, first you need to think about women and how desirable it is for them to be pregnant for 7-8 years of their lives, going through labor 10 times etc... Especially if 9 of those 10 children will live till 70, what good are you achieving there? World domination with your genes? XD Asking people to not have kids sounds pretty undesirable and anti-democratic too, but it the desirability of it should be debated publicly for sure. Also would you have 10 kids in a world where abundance is not a given? Where it's hard to afford a nanny, or even find one, etc...

Earw0rm 2y ago

And who ends up paying in a world that doesn't get its act together on sustainability? Hell, who's paying right now? Who's had their country invaded or their political system up-ended to keep cheap oil and cheap goods flowing to the West? I'm not saying degrowthers have all the answers, but any critique should be weighed even-handedly against a realistic view of the shortcomings of what we have now and where it's taking us.

corinroyal 2y ago
Seriously. Poor people in Mexico and India are frying in their homes right now while monkeys drop out of trees.

pillefitz 2y ago

Unlike communism, it's not a centrally enforced ideology, but something that either happens in a controlled or unontrolled fashion.

n4ture 2y ago

Who talked about sacrifice? De-growth is not about sacrifice, it's about changing the perspective on what is considered "good" and "desirable". I don't know why people are always so scared of de-growth, what you are describing with sacrifices is about decolonialism and global equalization. Ultimately if you are against such changes, you should champion neo-colonialism and make sure to promote racism so that you don't have to sacrifice anything and continue living at the expense of the poorer parts of the world...

subjectsigma 2y ago
When I think “de-growth”, one of the first things I think of is China’s One-Child Policy. 1. How does the OCP “stop” colonialism? 2. If what you mean by “changing the perspective on good and desirable” is restricting who can have children and who can’t, then obviously people are going to be upset with you?
- n4ture 2y ago
  Ok, then we don't have the same definition of de-growth. China is very much growth oriented, although in a different way than the collective West. 2. I think that has more to do with eugenics than degrowth, degrowth is asking how many children is desirable, if you want 10 children, first you need to think about women and how desirable it is for them to be pregnant for 7-8 years of their lives, going through labor 10 times etc... Especially if 9 of those 10 children will live till 70, what good are you achieving there? World domination with your genes? XD Asking people to not have kids sounds pretty undesirable and anti-democratic too, but it the desirability of it should be debated publicly for sure. Also would you have 10 kids in a world where abundance is not a given? Where it's hard to afford a nanny, or even find one, etc...