6 ms·

Let me posit an ad-hoc theory built on our anchoring bias in regards to price and our inability to think in terms of inflation/hyperbolic discounting: tl;dr -

Let me posit an ad-hoc theory built on our anchoring bias in regards to price and our inability to think in terms of inflation/hyperbolic discounting: tl;dr - Once a cheap alternative is on the market, us frugal folks can't imagine paying for what was once the default and only option, distorting our understanding of what constitutes good quality * He says buying a new sofa of the same quality today would cost upwards of $5000, and he paid more than $3000 for it in 1999. He paid $1000 now to reupholster. * Using US inflation data which is easier to access, $3000 in '99 is around $5600 today - so practically unchanged. * What's changed? Since the emergence of cheap badly-built furniture, it now _feels_ profligate to spend $5000 on a sofa, when in 1999 it was (hypothetically) the only option. * Instead people feel better buying a (say) $800 IKEA sofa every 5 years, which over 25 years is the $4000 nominal he has spent on his own sofa. It _feels_ much less painful to give IKEA $800 now than to give your local artisan sofa maker $5000. Who profits from that? You moreso than the local artisan. * It's true that the middle has been hollowed out - I can't find a well-made $1500 sofa, but on the plus side the less affluent have access to cheap sofas, and the affluent but frugal whinge and buy a new sofa every few years. I'm squarely in the frugal bracket, if not affluent...

rcpt 2y ago
The Ikea sofa makes a lot of sense if you don't think you'll stay in the same place for very long.
crazygringo 2y ago
Not to mention that when you pay $5000 for a sofa today, you don't really know if you're actually getting a sofa that will last 25 years or not, because you're not an expert in sofa construction techniques and frankly don't want to become one. So you might get totally ripped off. Whereas if you pay $800 for the IKEA sofa every 5 years, you know you're actually getting what you're paying for. Plus people move apartments, move houses, move cities. Sometimes every 5 years or even more often. The sofa that fit in the old apartment is too wide for the new one. Or the style that made sense in your prewar apartment looks silly in your modernist one. Or now you have kids and you need it to be stain-resistant. Or what felt like a cool trendy leather couch when you were 25 now looks tacky and vulgar to you when you're 34. For a lot of people, a sofa that's a fifth the price, that lasts a fifth as long, isn't a bug -- it's a feature. Quite simply, your sofa needs change.
- atopal 2y ago
  I don't understand where the idea comes from that IKEA sofas fall apart after 5 years. All of their sofas come with a 10 year warranty, even the cheapest ones. Here's one at the $850 price point: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/uppland-sofa-blekinge-white-s19384116/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/uppland-sofa-blekinge-white-s19... Their more expensive ones come with a 25 year warranty and still only cost $2,500: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/stockholm-sofa-seglora-natural-20245049/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/stockholm-sofa-seglora-natural-...
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    It is a very "limited" warranty: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/files/pdf/40/04/4004a9de/seating_furniture_warranty_2022.pdf https://www.ikea.com/us/en/files/pdf/40/04/4004a9de/seating_... If the sofa breaks, then sure it's covered. But it explicitly doesn't cover fabric or leather coverings -- and good luck trying to convince them that the foam padding has gone all flat. Whereas in my experience, how long a sofa lasts is determined precisely by how long the coverings and cushions last. (I've never in my life seen a sofa break.) So the IKEA warranty is irrelevant there. Your UPPLAND sofa may work great for 30 years in a guest room where it's sat on 5 times a year. But good luck getting it to last 10 years in the living room where the whole family is using it every day and kids are climbing all over it. (Of course, more expensive IKEA sofas do tend to last longer than the cheapest ones -- people are usually talking about the cheap ones.)
    - tanepiper 2y ago
      No sofa has a 25 year warranty on fabric, that wouldn't make sense - but you can of course by insurance for it and usually most non-IKEA sofa shops will offer you Scotchguard cover usually for 3 to 5 years. Depending on the Sofa you can or course get one that has IKEA+ which is replaceable covers, which you can't do with most other sofas. (Disclosure: I work at IKEA, although I only found out the 25 year cover a few weeks ago)
    - ric2b 2y ago
      The stuff that isn't covered is the stuff that will naturally wear out with use and can be easily replaced, so I don't see the problem.
pards 2y ago
Except he said: > new leather sofas of the “not flat-packed sawdust and glue” variety quickly get into five figures five figures >= $10,000, not $5,000
Anon1096 2y ago
I've had my IKEA sofa for close to a decade, saying you need to change it every 5 years is not even close to true. There's a perception that more expensive=will last longer, but it just doesn't hold out in reality. Oftentimes the mass market product really is just a solid product.
- _fat_santa 2y ago
  Not sofas but office chairs, currently sitting on an IKEA Markus chair that my parents bought for me when I was in the 7th grade. I'm 30.
seer 2y ago
I don't know why HN has the idea that IKEA is cheap trash - yes some of the things in their catalog are not very high quality, but they seem to be very consistent. But more importantly (for me), because they have such a huge catalog, and a propensity to optimise, they ended up with a supremely hackable furniture - everything fits together with everything else, whenever you want to build something - there are tons of parts available - and you can buy just the parts its kinda like lego. Also a lot of Ikea stuff is made of honeycomb paper - so it's trivial to put cables and electronics inside. I've hacked multiple tables and sofas by putting charging ports / wireless chargers and other doo-dads inside, vastly decreasing my cable management issues. And again if anything breaks, its kinda trivial to fix it yourself, as you've probably assembled it and know where each bold and nail go.
- fbdab103 2y ago
  The aspect of Ikea furniture I like - it is typically stylish. To get an equivalent look somewhere else usually invokes large price increases for seemingly no change in quality. It is definitely not the best quality, but I have moved several Ikea pieces over the years without much ill effects. Would I like to upgrade to some "adult" furniture one day? Maybe, but I fear much of it is like other designer goods - identical crap construction with a reputable label stitched on the front.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Ikea stuff with metal parts: grab it and keep it. Ikea stuff with solid wood parts: if you really like it, it's probably good value. Ikea stuff with manufactured wood parts: you'd better really like, because it probably won't last that long or that well.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  One nice thing about IKEA furniture is that the price of an item is well connected to its quality, and they offer items in a range of quality levels, so there’s a trustable signal in the price
  - user_7832 2y ago
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
> Instead people feel better buying a (say) $800 IKEA sofa every 5 years, which over 25 years is the $4000 nominal he has spent on his own sofa. My IKEA sofa is 10 years old, has been through 4 moves, and looks and feels exactly the same as the day I bought it modulo a smattering of aftermarket pet hair. I see no reason why it wouldn't last another 10 years. The price right now today is $750. I'm sure I didn't pay more than $500 at the time. And it folds out to a large guest bed. And it has a storage compartment. And getting it up or down a flight of stairs is a breeze. It's just a substantially better bargain. And if I ever need to replace the foam in the cushions, I can buy blocks of foam to put inside the covers for very cheap.
- cratermoon 2y ago
  Do you have kids or pets?

rcpt 2y ago

The Ikea sofa makes a lot of sense if you don't think you'll stay in the same place for very long.

crazygringo 2y ago

Not to mention that when you pay $5000 for a sofa today, you don't really know if you're actually getting a sofa that will last 25 years or not, because you're not an expert in sofa construction techniques and frankly don't want to become one. So you might get totally ripped off. Whereas if you pay $800 for the IKEA sofa every 5 years, you know you're actually getting what you're paying for. Plus people move apartments, move houses, move cities. Sometimes every 5 years or even more often. The sofa that fit in the old apartment is too wide for the new one. Or the style that made sense in your prewar apartment looks silly in your modernist one. Or now you have kids and you need it to be stain-resistant. Or what felt like a cool trendy leather couch when you were 25 now looks tacky and vulgar to you when you're 34. For a lot of people, a sofa that's a fifth the price, that lasts a fifth as long, isn't a bug -- it's a feature. Quite simply, your sofa needs change.

atopal 2y ago
I don't understand where the idea comes from that IKEA sofas fall apart after 5 years. All of their sofas come with a 10 year warranty, even the cheapest ones. Here's one at the $850 price point: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/uppland-sofa-blekinge-white-s19384116/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/uppland-sofa-blekinge-white-s19... Their more expensive ones come with a 25 year warranty and still only cost $2,500: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/stockholm-sofa-seglora-natural-20245049/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/stockholm-sofa-seglora-natural-...
- crazygringo 2y ago
  It is a very "limited" warranty: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/files/pdf/40/04/4004a9de/seating_furniture_warranty_2022.pdf https://www.ikea.com/us/en/files/pdf/40/04/4004a9de/seating_... If the sofa breaks, then sure it's covered. But it explicitly doesn't cover fabric or leather coverings -- and good luck trying to convince them that the foam padding has gone all flat. Whereas in my experience, how long a sofa lasts is determined precisely by how long the coverings and cushions last. (I've never in my life seen a sofa break.) So the IKEA warranty is irrelevant there. Your UPPLAND sofa may work great for 30 years in a guest room where it's sat on 5 times a year. But good luck getting it to last 10 years in the living room where the whole family is using it every day and kids are climbing all over it. (Of course, more expensive IKEA sofas do tend to last longer than the cheapest ones -- people are usually talking about the cheap ones.)
  - tanepiper 2y ago
    No sofa has a 25 year warranty on fabric, that wouldn't make sense - but you can of course by insurance for it and usually most non-IKEA sofa shops will offer you Scotchguard cover usually for 3 to 5 years. Depending on the Sofa you can or course get one that has IKEA+ which is replaceable covers, which you can't do with most other sofas. (Disclosure: I work at IKEA, although I only found out the 25 year cover a few weeks ago)
  - ric2b 2y ago
    The stuff that isn't covered is the stuff that will naturally wear out with use and can be easily replaced, so I don't see the problem.

pards 2y ago

Except he said: > new leather sofas of the “not flat-packed sawdust and glue” variety quickly get into five figures five figures >= $10,000, not $5,000

Anon1096 2y ago

I've had my IKEA sofa for close to a decade, saying you need to change it every 5 years is not even close to true. There's a perception that more expensive=will last longer, but it just doesn't hold out in reality. Oftentimes the mass market product really is just a solid product.

_fat_santa 2y ago
Not sofas but office chairs, currently sitting on an IKEA Markus chair that my parents bought for me when I was in the 7th grade. I'm 30.

seer 2y ago

I don't know why HN has the idea that IKEA is cheap trash - yes some of the things in their catalog are not very high quality, but they seem to be very consistent. But more importantly (for me), because they have such a huge catalog, and a propensity to optimise, they ended up with a supremely hackable furniture - everything fits together with everything else, whenever you want to build something - there are tons of parts available - and you can buy just the parts its kinda like lego. Also a lot of Ikea stuff is made of honeycomb paper - so it's trivial to put cables and electronics inside. I've hacked multiple tables and sofas by putting charging ports / wireless chargers and other doo-dads inside, vastly decreasing my cable management issues. And again if anything breaks, its kinda trivial to fix it yourself, as you've probably assembled it and know where each bold and nail go.

fbdab103 2y ago
The aspect of Ikea furniture I like - it is typically stylish. To get an equivalent look somewhere else usually invokes large price increases for seemingly no change in quality. It is definitely not the best quality, but I have moved several Ikea pieces over the years without much ill effects. Would I like to upgrade to some "adult" furniture one day? Maybe, but I fear much of it is like other designer goods - identical crap construction with a reputable label stitched on the front.
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
Ikea stuff with metal parts: grab it and keep it. Ikea stuff with solid wood parts: if you really like it, it's probably good value. Ikea stuff with manufactured wood parts: you'd better really like, because it probably won't last that long or that well.
petesergeant 2y ago
One nice thing about IKEA furniture is that the price of an item is well connected to its quality, and they offer items in a range of quality levels, so there’s a trustable signal in the price
- user_7832 2y ago

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago

> Instead people feel better buying a (say) $800 IKEA sofa every 5 years, which over 25 years is the $4000 nominal he has spent on his own sofa. My IKEA sofa is 10 years old, has been through 4 moves, and looks and feels exactly the same as the day I bought it modulo a smattering of aftermarket pet hair. I see no reason why it wouldn't last another 10 years. The price right now today is $750. I'm sure I didn't pay more than $500 at the time. And it folds out to a large guest bed. And it has a storage compartment. And getting it up or down a flight of stairs is a breeze. It's just a substantially better bargain. And if I ever need to replace the foam in the cushions, I can buy blocks of foam to put inside the covers for very cheap.

cratermoon 2y ago
Do you have kids or pets?