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> MBA-enforced buzzwords like OKRs OKRs just means you write down measurable goals in a place where people can see them. The word is popular since it is obviou

> MBA-enforced buzzwords like OKRs OKRs just means you write down measurable goals in a place where people can see them. The word is popular since it is obviously a good thing to do, it is something everyone should do. In school your OKRs are your classes etc, having such short term measurable goals is really good for personal productivity and alignment. So OKRs are like unit tests, you can do them badly but it is a thing you almost always want when you do software development, unit tests aren't just a "buzzword", and neither are OKRs. The alternative to OKR is that your manager writes down your OKRs in a hidden place where you can't see them, the only thing that changes is that now you are less informed. Ignorance is bliss, but reality will smash you anyway. Personally I thought it was good that I could see what goals my manager had, what goals his manager had, what goals that managers manager had etc. I don't see why people are so angry at that level of transparency.

fifilura 2y ago
I my experience, measurable goals is a pipe dream. It promotes menial tasks like "take a 2 day course in React". "Clean my desk twice a week" "write 10 unit tests" over "spending 100% of my time creating value for customers"
- Jensson 2y ago
  A measurable goal can be "Deliver feature X" etc, how is that not value for customers? But yeah OKR are usually done at higher level than individuals, I didn't write any OKRs just the people above me. In general it is something managers should do, the lowest level employees shouldn't have to. I can agree that individuals being forced to write OKRs is a bad thing, but managers being forced to write OKRs is a good thing. At higher level OKRs looks like "attract X more customers" or "reduce customer churn by Y%" etc, to achieve those they instruct people like you to create customer value, at your individual level such goals aren't as easy to write since they are the result of contributions from many parts. Edit: But if you can come up with good measurable goals for you as an individual since you have enough individual freedom to do so, then yeah writing that down is good. But if you don't have any long term project and don't have control to plan what you work on then writing down an OKR is just hazing, you need to be responsible for the things your OKR measures, if you lack long term responsibilities then you shouldn't write down any OKRs.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    What I mean that it gravitates toward menial tasks. They will have an edge. "Deliver product X" most of the time depends on so much more than my or the teams performance. Maybe it is not even a priority anymore?
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > "Deliver product X" most of the time depends on so much more than my or the teams performance. Maybe it is not even a priority anymore? Don't you have an OKR tree? If it isn't just your teams responsibility then just put it at a higher level in the org, and then the individual teams will have OKRs saying they should contribute to such efforts. If you have too rapid pace of individual features, then an OKR can be to reduce latency when other functions need help from you to increase collaboration among teams etc, if that is a bottleneck to delivering features. If a team you depend on often respond "we don't have time helping you, wait a week!", then that team should get an OKR to reduce that time since those delays are costing you a lot. Such delays are easily measurable so becomes excellent OKRs. Other good OKRs could be to reduce time to review code etc, to help speed up coding iterations and make job more fun, waiting for a response isn't fun. We typically got code reviews in much less than an hour, for smaller things often within minutes, that is much better than waiting a day on it. Edit: If your managers isn't doing these things then they are just incompetent, such an org will be dysfunctional regardless what you do, the OKR just makes that dysfunction more visible but they would work like shit regardless. OKRs really do help managers fix such organizations, as you can see from my examples above, those would really help you deliver features to customers in time.
      - fifilura 2y ago
        Those are all examples of menial tasks IMO. So the organization/company that delivers on those - Wins?
        Jensson 2y ago
        Yes, ensuring all parts do their job effectively so that nobody gets bottlenecked is the core to organizational efficiency. And those bottlenecks and organizational dysfunctions are extremely frustrating when you try to do your job, so it is good for employee happiness as well.
- azlev 2y ago
  Well, I'm sorry for your experience. Now in a manager chair I have both experiences, setting bad OKRs and good OKRs. The performance and communication improvements when you get it right are astonishing. Unfortunately, I'm not consistent yet. But when you find a manager/ place where people get it right, you'll love it.

fifilura 2y ago

I my experience, measurable goals is a pipe dream. It promotes menial tasks like "take a 2 day course in React". "Clean my desk twice a week" "write 10 unit tests" over "spending 100% of my time creating value for customers"

Jensson 2y ago
A measurable goal can be "Deliver feature X" etc, how is that not value for customers? But yeah OKR are usually done at higher level than individuals, I didn't write any OKRs just the people above me. In general it is something managers should do, the lowest level employees shouldn't have to. I can agree that individuals being forced to write OKRs is a bad thing, but managers being forced to write OKRs is a good thing. At higher level OKRs looks like "attract X more customers" or "reduce customer churn by Y%" etc, to achieve those they instruct people like you to create customer value, at your individual level such goals aren't as easy to write since they are the result of contributions from many parts. Edit: But if you can come up with good measurable goals for you as an individual since you have enough individual freedom to do so, then yeah writing that down is good. But if you don't have any long term project and don't have control to plan what you work on then writing down an OKR is just hazing, you need to be responsible for the things your OKR measures, if you lack long term responsibilities then you shouldn't write down any OKRs.
- fifilura 2y ago
  What I mean that it gravitates toward menial tasks. They will have an edge. "Deliver product X" most of the time depends on so much more than my or the teams performance. Maybe it is not even a priority anymore?
  - Jensson 2y ago
    > "Deliver product X" most of the time depends on so much more than my or the teams performance. Maybe it is not even a priority anymore? Don't you have an OKR tree? If it isn't just your teams responsibility then just put it at a higher level in the org, and then the individual teams will have OKRs saying they should contribute to such efforts. If you have too rapid pace of individual features, then an OKR can be to reduce latency when other functions need help from you to increase collaboration among teams etc, if that is a bottleneck to delivering features. If a team you depend on often respond "we don't have time helping you, wait a week!", then that team should get an OKR to reduce that time since those delays are costing you a lot. Such delays are easily measurable so becomes excellent OKRs. Other good OKRs could be to reduce time to review code etc, to help speed up coding iterations and make job more fun, waiting for a response isn't fun. We typically got code reviews in much less than an hour, for smaller things often within minutes, that is much better than waiting a day on it. Edit: If your managers isn't doing these things then they are just incompetent, such an org will be dysfunctional regardless what you do, the OKR just makes that dysfunction more visible but they would work like shit regardless. OKRs really do help managers fix such organizations, as you can see from my examples above, those would really help you deliver features to customers in time.
    - fifilura 2y ago
      Those are all examples of menial tasks IMO. So the organization/company that delivers on those - Wins?
      - Jensson 2y ago
        Yes, ensuring all parts do their job effectively so that nobody gets bottlenecked is the core to organizational efficiency. And those bottlenecks and organizational dysfunctions are extremely frustrating when you try to do your job, so it is good for employee happiness as well.
azlev 2y ago
Well, I'm sorry for your experience. Now in a manager chair I have both experiences, setting bad OKRs and good OKRs. The performance and communication improvements when you get it right are astonishing. Unfortunately, I'm not consistent yet. But when you find a manager/ place where people get it right, you'll love it.