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All metrics like this either immediately or eventually become targets to be gamed [0]. If you’re part of the execution apparatus you’re just caught in the cros

All metrics like this either immediately or eventually become targets to be gamed [0]. If you’re part of the execution apparatus you’re just caught in the crossfire in trying to make some old fart’s powerpoint presentation green when showing it to other directors. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Jensson 2y ago
Only if you reward people based on completion. IF you just use them to communicate goals I don't see why they would be bad. When I worked we did OKR but nobody talked about them and it wasn't a big deal whether they succeeded or not, it was just a place to put goals, just like a bug tracker. If you have a place where you write down goals you are basically doing OKRs, it is good to do in general.
- runlaszlorun 2y ago
  > Only if you reward people based on completion. IF you just use them to communicate goals I don't see why they would be bad. I concur. But I personally have never seen that happen. Not to mention, instituting it organizationally means you don’t have much idea how it’s being applied elsewhere in the org.
- redrove 2y ago
  That’s like saying communism works because all you have to do is distribute the wealth equally right? It may look good on paper but in practice it always becomes a target and it’s considered a failure if you miss one. If it doesn’t work in practice the theory is wrong.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    OKRs are done right in tons of places, just that when they are done right people don't notice them much because they aren't meant to be a thing you notice much. Its first and foremost a thing managers should be engaged with since it helps them organize with each other, individual employees should barely be aware OKRs are even a thing at the company.
    - redrove 2y ago
      > OKRs are done right in tons of places No true scotsman!
      - Jensson 2y ago
        > No true scotsman! Do you even know what that means? I didn't say it isn't OKR if it is done badly, your response makes no sense. In Agile it makes sense since they say if it doesn't work it isn't Agile, but I never said that badly done OKRs aren't OKRs.
runlaszlorun 2y ago
^^ This. And I’d never heard of Goodhart’s Law. Thanks for the mention.

Jensson 2y ago

Only if you reward people based on completion. IF you just use them to communicate goals I don't see why they would be bad. When I worked we did OKR but nobody talked about them and it wasn't a big deal whether they succeeded or not, it was just a place to put goals, just like a bug tracker. If you have a place where you write down goals you are basically doing OKRs, it is good to do in general.

runlaszlorun 2y ago
> Only if you reward people based on completion. IF you just use them to communicate goals I don't see why they would be bad. I concur. But I personally have never seen that happen. Not to mention, instituting it organizationally means you don’t have much idea how it’s being applied elsewhere in the org.
redrove 2y ago
That’s like saying communism works because all you have to do is distribute the wealth equally right? It may look good on paper but in practice it always becomes a target and it’s considered a failure if you miss one. If it doesn’t work in practice the theory is wrong.
- Jensson 2y ago
  OKRs are done right in tons of places, just that when they are done right people don't notice them much because they aren't meant to be a thing you notice much. Its first and foremost a thing managers should be engaged with since it helps them organize with each other, individual employees should barely be aware OKRs are even a thing at the company.
  - redrove 2y ago
    > OKRs are done right in tons of places No true scotsman!
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > No true scotsman! Do you even know what that means? I didn't say it isn't OKR if it is done badly, your response makes no sense. In Agile it makes sense since they say if it doesn't work it isn't Agile, but I never said that badly done OKRs aren't OKRs.

runlaszlorun 2y ago

^^ This. And I’d never heard of Goodhart’s Law. Thanks for the mention.