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You can see in the replies here and everywhere else that the people want war. Because surely this time it is different. Governments and media made the EU citize

You can see in the replies here and everywhere else that the people want war. Because surely this time it is different. Governments and media made the EU citizens ready for war in the span of a few weeks. It"s truly scary.

throwaway473825 2y ago
Have you been living under a rock? There already is war in Europe. Ignoring Hitler didn't end well for Europe, and Putin won't be any different.
- Jensson 2y ago
  Hitler conquered several countries in under a year and there were no signs of that slowing down, Russia has been at a stand still in Ukraine for over 2 years now. Current war is closer to ww1 than ww2.
  - effie 2y ago
    And why was Hitler's Germany able to conquer several countries and kill millions? Because big powers felt "we're afraid of repetition of the 1st war" and "peace in our time" and "let's make deal with him againt the others". Those policies caused utter disaster. When you find a scorpion at your doorstep, even if it talks smoothly, and proposes to share the room as mutually advantageous, you don't negotiate with it.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      "When you find a scorpion at your doorstep" Oh, now I see what meant by "with russian-compatible thought processes". Dehumanizing other people by likening them to insects and attributing incompatible 'thought processes' sounds familiar. The last time the USSR lost 26 million people because of European invasion.
      - effie 2y ago
        You misunderstood. I meant the dangerous poisonous nature of the scorpion, not that I hate the insect; I am fascinated by scorpions, but I don't bring them home. I can rephrase - when Russian state official is at your doorstep, and makes suggestions that part of your space will now be his, don't negotiate.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - effie 2y ago
        USSR lost many people not only because of the German invasion, but also because they had a terrible leader who co-started WW II and misjudged Hitler. And Europe and America made sure USSR won that war.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        Tell me, how long other countries on the European continent fought Nazis? >Europe and America made sure USSR won that war That's funny, almost all of Europe fought along with Nazi with small exceptions like Greeks. And no one in Europe was in position to "make sure the USSR won the war"
        effie 2y ago
        Europe was divided, we know that. My people fought both against USSR and together with it against Germans. History and its significance can't be explained in single historical essay, and it certainly should not be misused to advance one's poor argument.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
        effie 2y ago
lambdaxyzw 2y ago
I want the war in Ukraine to end, and. There are two options: to let Putin get what he want and risk my country being next, and to help Ukraine. Do you have other suggestions? Of course I would love it if Russia tomorrow decided to say "whoops sorry that was an accident" and retreated, but I find this highly unlikely.
- lambdaxyzw 2y ago
  I appreciate the downvotes, but I'm honestly looking forward to hearing a better alternative (than helping Ukraine financially and with weapon shipments). I imagine people expressing "anti-war" opinions live far away from the frontline, don't have to worry about their country being next, and it's easy for them to say "just end the war". But maybe I'm wrong. So please when downvoting also spare a minute to share what your preferred solution is.
  - effie 2y ago
    I didn't downvote. There are alternative approaches. For example, U.S. can cease support as loss of Ukraine is not really a big problem for them, as long as Russia stays in non-NATO countries; Europe+UK can then say we won't be able to keep this together without U.S. and say Ukrainians, if you want, make a deal with Russia, and who wants to flee, you're welcome in Europe. Russia gets Ukraine and the small part of population there unable to leave or those with russian-compatible thought processes. No further war necessary for some time (in other words, we get some pause, which we will use to arm the f up). This scenario sucks, shows weakness, it has its own risks, russian-controlled Ukraine is a big security and money problem for neighbouring states, and is not necessary while Ukraine can fight with western weapons, and thus nobody relevant wants to try it as of yet. But anti-war naives do not think that far ahead. If Ukraine runs out of soldiers, or U.S. backs out, some variant of this may however get on the table and we will be subjected to massive militarization.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      "with russian-compatible thought processes" What's the supposed to mean?
effie 2y ago
Most people do not want war, but we have the war regardless, it has been imposed on us. In such situation, people want to keep the war as far away as possible. Hence support of Ukraine.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  What makes you think that your country is threatened?
  - effie 2y ago
    Russian speech in media and russian activities in Ukraine and pro-russian activities in my country.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      I don't know what you are talking about specifically, but per your other comment, all of that sounds like "morally justified" "civilized methods".
      - effie 2y ago
        I'm talking about threatening nukes for helping the victim to defend. Denying existence of nation and its state. Russian TV debates with Solovyov. Religious leaders sanctioning military aggression. None of that is civilized, but however, that is not the end of it. Covert operations blowing up arm depots in other countries. Financing anti-system helpers and being successful in finding traitors who sell classified information. Russian government having ambitions in toppling post-Cold War status quo in Europe. All this induces massive militarization in Europe, which will get stronger as Russia comes closer.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        >for helping the victim to defend I don't understand you. Russia was finally helping the victims -- DNR and LNR -- to defend themselves. And the West is helping the bully to regain its power over victims.

throwaway473825 2y ago

Have you been living under a rock? There already is war in Europe. Ignoring Hitler didn't end well for Europe, and Putin won't be any different.

Jensson 2y ago
Hitler conquered several countries in under a year and there were no signs of that slowing down, Russia has been at a stand still in Ukraine for over 2 years now. Current war is closer to ww1 than ww2.
- effie 2y ago
  And why was Hitler's Germany able to conquer several countries and kill millions? Because big powers felt "we're afraid of repetition of the 1st war" and "peace in our time" and "let's make deal with him againt the others". Those policies caused utter disaster. When you find a scorpion at your doorstep, even if it talks smoothly, and proposes to share the room as mutually advantageous, you don't negotiate with it.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    "When you find a scorpion at your doorstep" Oh, now I see what meant by "with russian-compatible thought processes". Dehumanizing other people by likening them to insects and attributing incompatible 'thought processes' sounds familiar. The last time the USSR lost 26 million people because of European invasion.
    - effie 2y ago
      You misunderstood. I meant the dangerous poisonous nature of the scorpion, not that I hate the insect; I am fascinated by scorpions, but I don't bring them home. I can rephrase - when Russian state official is at your doorstep, and makes suggestions that part of your space will now be his, don't negotiate.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
    - effie 2y ago
      USSR lost many people not only because of the German invasion, but also because they had a terrible leader who co-started WW II and misjudged Hitler. And Europe and America made sure USSR won that war.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        Tell me, how long other countries on the European continent fought Nazis? >Europe and America made sure USSR won that war That's funny, almost all of Europe fought along with Nazi with small exceptions like Greeks. And no one in Europe was in position to "make sure the USSR won the war"
        effie 2y ago
        Europe was divided, we know that. My people fought both against USSR and together with it against Germans. History and its significance can't be explained in single historical essay, and it certainly should not be misused to advance one's poor argument.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
        effie 2y ago

lambdaxyzw 2y ago

I want the war in Ukraine to end, and. There are two options: to let Putin get what he want and risk my country being next, and to help Ukraine. Do you have other suggestions? Of course I would love it if Russia tomorrow decided to say "whoops sorry that was an accident" and retreated, but I find this highly unlikely.

lambdaxyzw 2y ago
I appreciate the downvotes, but I'm honestly looking forward to hearing a better alternative (than helping Ukraine financially and with weapon shipments). I imagine people expressing "anti-war" opinions live far away from the frontline, don't have to worry about their country being next, and it's easy for them to say "just end the war". But maybe I'm wrong. So please when downvoting also spare a minute to share what your preferred solution is.
- effie 2y ago
  I didn't downvote. There are alternative approaches. For example, U.S. can cease support as loss of Ukraine is not really a big problem for them, as long as Russia stays in non-NATO countries; Europe+UK can then say we won't be able to keep this together without U.S. and say Ukrainians, if you want, make a deal with Russia, and who wants to flee, you're welcome in Europe. Russia gets Ukraine and the small part of population there unable to leave or those with russian-compatible thought processes. No further war necessary for some time (in other words, we get some pause, which we will use to arm the f up). This scenario sucks, shows weakness, it has its own risks, russian-controlled Ukraine is a big security and money problem for neighbouring states, and is not necessary while Ukraine can fight with western weapons, and thus nobody relevant wants to try it as of yet. But anti-war naives do not think that far ahead. If Ukraine runs out of soldiers, or U.S. backs out, some variant of this may however get on the table and we will be subjected to massive militarization.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    "with russian-compatible thought processes" What's the supposed to mean?

effie 2y ago

Most people do not want war, but we have the war regardless, it has been imposed on us. In such situation, people want to keep the war as far away as possible. Hence support of Ukraine.

protomolecule 2y ago
What makes you think that your country is threatened?
- effie 2y ago
  Russian speech in media and russian activities in Ukraine and pro-russian activities in my country.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    I don't know what you are talking about specifically, but per your other comment, all of that sounds like "morally justified" "civilized methods".
    - effie 2y ago
      I'm talking about threatening nukes for helping the victim to defend. Denying existence of nation and its state. Russian TV debates with Solovyov. Religious leaders sanctioning military aggression. None of that is civilized, but however, that is not the end of it. Covert operations blowing up arm depots in other countries. Financing anti-system helpers and being successful in finding traitors who sell classified information. Russian government having ambitions in toppling post-Cold War status quo in Europe. All this induces massive militarization in Europe, which will get stronger as Russia comes closer.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        >for helping the victim to defend I don't understand you. Russia was finally helping the victims -- DNR and LNR -- to defend themselves. And the West is helping the bully to regain its power over victims.