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Next week we have the European Parliament elections. Any tip on any "mainstream" party which is strongly against this? I know for sure the Pirate Party but they

Next week we have the European Parliament elections. Any tip on any "mainstream" party which is strongly against this? I know for sure the Pirate Party but they would never get a seat, at least in my country

qludes 2y ago
EPP is pushing for this, ALDE is probably mixed depending on the country. So if Greens/EFA and parties like Volt or pirates stand no chance you could still not vote EPP.
- mcjiggerlog 2y ago
  I can't find specific policy positions for Volt on encryption, but they're very positive about open source [1], so you'd imagine they'd have a pretty reasonable approach to encryption too. [1] https://volteuropa.org/policies/european-democracy-act/open-source-software https://volteuropa.org/policies/european-democracy-act/open-...
  - vasco 2y ago
    Volt has way more political stances, so it's a less neutral choice. If you care most about internet freedom the ones to go for are the Pirates.
  - tremon 2y ago
    It's indirect, but in their policy programme (https://volteuropa.org/storage/pdf/eu-elections-2024/volt-eur-electoral-moonshot-program_v5-final-(1).pdf https://volteuropa.org/storage/pdf/eu-elections-2024/volt-eu..., page 45) they mention: Transform the Declaration on European Digital Rights and Principles for the Digital Decade into a binding legal instrument, so that the Declaration is upheld at every step of policy making. The Declaration that they mention is not from Volt, it's from the EU itself and can be found here: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/european-declaration-digital-rights-and-principles https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/european-de... Privacy and individual control over data 17. Everyone has the right to privacy and to the protection of their personal data. The latter right includes the control by individuals on how their personal data are used and with whom they are shared. 18. Everyone has the right to the confidentiality of their communications and the information on their electronic devices, and not to be subjected to unlawful online surveillance, unlawful pervasive tracking or interception measures. Of course, given that this Declaration is signed by the same parties that are currently pushing the ChatControl measures being discussed doesn't fill me with much confidence.
aembleton 2y ago
Czech pirate party and German pirate party have seats and they're members of the Greens–European Free Alliance [1]. Take a look at which parties where you live are members of that alliance. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens%E2%80%93European_Free_Alliance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens%E2%80%93European_Free...
- stakhanov 2y ago
  If I correctly understand the linked materials by Patrick Breyer [1], then the parliament (which is the piece of the E.U. where we are presently asked for our vote), is opposed to this pretty much in its entirety: It says "Parliament has positioned itself almost unanimously against indiscriminate chat control." So, it seems, the way you vote here doesn't much affect that outcome at all. Also, if I correctly understand this table [2], then "Renew" (formerly "ALDE") is also opposed, so you don't need to adopt the leftist political ideology of the Greens as a package, just to get pro-privacy representation in the European Parliament. "Renew" does seem to be a viable "libertarian" alternative there. They also make some pro-privacy representations on their website. I don't follow European politics much, so I may be mistaken here. For example, I haven't looked into their voting record. [1] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ [2] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#negotiators https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#negotia...
- 0rzech 2y ago
  Just don't get guided by the tables with only those Alliance members, who actually made it into the European Parliament, on this page. For instance, only Sylwia Spurek is mentioned there for Poland - a terrible choice IMHO [1], while there's the Pirate Party in Poland (https://polskapartiapiratow.pl/ https://polskapartiapiratow.pl/) too. [1] For example, while being the Vice Commissioner for Human Rights (vice ombudswoman) in Poland, she stated that "It is worth, first of all, stating a few facts. First, violence has a gender, whether we want it to or not. Women and children are the victims, and men are the perpetrators." (video transcript translated with https://www.deepl.com https://www.deepl.com, source in Polish: https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/dr-sylwia-spurek-przemoc-ma-plec-czy-tego-chcemy-czy-nie/2jhmx9g https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/dr-sylwia-spurek-przemoc-ma-...).
vasco 2y ago
Not getting a seat doesn't matter, it can still signal growing voting in that party and give people confidence to vote for them on the next go around.
pixelpoet 2y ago
I'm feeling inclined to vote for them this time.
fisian 2y ago
You can look at the votes of the members of European parliament. For example, here for a vote on "chat control" [1] (from 2021) and a recent one [2]. You can filter to your country to see how each party (or even each member) voted. [1]: https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=134463 https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=134463 [2]: https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712 https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712 However, its not that easy to find these results. I was looking quite a while to find this one.
- darkwater 2y ago
  Thank you very much! I will definitely need to remember to vote in my country of residence next time, because my country of birth has almost nobody representing a good chunk of my views :(
- flawn 2y ago
  Volt being valid as always with Damian Boeselager
- 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
  All MEPs from my country voted in favor of both of those. Really wish I had a choice for the upcoming elections :/
einpoklum 2y ago
Well, apparently, it seems spying on the populace is kind of the mainstream position - among the political elites - in many European countries these days; so perhaps you should consider non-mainstream political currents. Also - there is the question of EU legitimacy. Its structure is highly problematic, as are its politics vis-a-vis the US, NATO, Russia, Arab countries etc - and I'll naturally not open that whole discussion; my point is that I would also consider supporting dissolution of and/or secession from the EU. Not because friendly and cooperative inter-relations are bad for European countries - of course they are - but because the EU is not a good vehicle for that, it's a vehicle for realizing elite-minority political and economic interests.
- einpoklum 2y ago
  s/of course they are/of course they are good for them/ Excuse the confusing mistype :-(
im_dario 2y ago
I don’t know where are you located, but I’d avoid voting based on “this party won’t get a seat”. Voting for a party is a signal for other people and for the party itself. It may not be today but next time that they get that seat.

qludes 2y ago

EPP is pushing for this, ALDE is probably mixed depending on the country. So if Greens/EFA and parties like Volt or pirates stand no chance you could still not vote EPP.

mcjiggerlog 2y ago
I can't find specific policy positions for Volt on encryption, but they're very positive about open source [1], so you'd imagine they'd have a pretty reasonable approach to encryption too. [1] https://volteuropa.org/policies/european-democracy-act/open-source-software https://volteuropa.org/policies/european-democracy-act/open-...
- vasco 2y ago
  Volt has way more political stances, so it's a less neutral choice. If you care most about internet freedom the ones to go for are the Pirates.
- tremon 2y ago
  It's indirect, but in their policy programme (https://volteuropa.org/storage/pdf/eu-elections-2024/volt-eur-electoral-moonshot-program_v5-final-(1).pdf https://volteuropa.org/storage/pdf/eu-elections-2024/volt-eu..., page 45) they mention: Transform the Declaration on European Digital Rights and Principles for the Digital Decade into a binding legal instrument, so that the Declaration is upheld at every step of policy making. The Declaration that they mention is not from Volt, it's from the EU itself and can be found here: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/european-declaration-digital-rights-and-principles https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/european-de... Privacy and individual control over data 17. Everyone has the right to privacy and to the protection of their personal data. The latter right includes the control by individuals on how their personal data are used and with whom they are shared. 18. Everyone has the right to the confidentiality of their communications and the information on their electronic devices, and not to be subjected to unlawful online surveillance, unlawful pervasive tracking or interception measures. Of course, given that this Declaration is signed by the same parties that are currently pushing the ChatControl measures being discussed doesn't fill me with much confidence.

aembleton 2y ago

Czech pirate party and German pirate party have seats and they're members of the Greens–European Free Alliance [1]. Take a look at which parties where you live are members of that alliance. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens%E2%80%93European_Free_Alliance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greens%E2%80%93European_Free...

stakhanov 2y ago
If I correctly understand the linked materials by Patrick Breyer [1], then the parliament (which is the piece of the E.U. where we are presently asked for our vote), is opposed to this pretty much in its entirety: It says "Parliament has positioned itself almost unanimously against indiscriminate chat control." So, it seems, the way you vote here doesn't much affect that outcome at all. Also, if I correctly understand this table [2], then "Renew" (formerly "ALDE") is also opposed, so you don't need to adopt the leftist political ideology of the Greens as a package, just to get pro-privacy representation in the European Parliament. "Renew" does seem to be a viable "libertarian" alternative there. They also make some pro-privacy representations on their website. I don't follow European politics much, so I may be mistaken here. For example, I haven't looked into their voting record. [1] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ [2] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#negotiators https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#negotia...
0rzech 2y ago
Just don't get guided by the tables with only those Alliance members, who actually made it into the European Parliament, on this page. For instance, only Sylwia Spurek is mentioned there for Poland - a terrible choice IMHO [1], while there's the Pirate Party in Poland (https://polskapartiapiratow.pl/ https://polskapartiapiratow.pl/) too. [1] For example, while being the Vice Commissioner for Human Rights (vice ombudswoman) in Poland, she stated that "It is worth, first of all, stating a few facts. First, violence has a gender, whether we want it to or not. Women and children are the victims, and men are the perpetrators." (video transcript translated with https://www.deepl.com https://www.deepl.com, source in Polish: https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/dr-sylwia-spurek-przemoc-ma-plec-czy-tego-chcemy-czy-nie/2jhmx9g https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/dr-sylwia-spurek-przemoc-ma-...).

vasco 2y ago

Not getting a seat doesn't matter, it can still signal growing voting in that party and give people confidence to vote for them on the next go around.

pixelpoet 2y ago

I'm feeling inclined to vote for them this time.

fisian 2y ago

You can look at the votes of the members of European parliament. For example, here for a vote on "chat control" [1] (from 2021) and a recent one [2]. You can filter to your country to see how each party (or even each member) voted. [1]: https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=134463 https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=134463 [2]: https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712 https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712 However, its not that easy to find these results. I was looking quite a while to find this one.

darkwater 2y ago
Thank you very much! I will definitely need to remember to vote in my country of residence next time, because my country of birth has almost nobody representing a good chunk of my views :(
flawn 2y ago
Volt being valid as always with Damian Boeselager
76SlashDolphin 2y ago
All MEPs from my country voted in favor of both of those. Really wish I had a choice for the upcoming elections :/

einpoklum 2y ago

Well, apparently, it seems spying on the populace is kind of the mainstream position - among the political elites - in many European countries these days; so perhaps you should consider non-mainstream political currents. Also - there is the question of EU legitimacy. Its structure is highly problematic, as are its politics vis-a-vis the US, NATO, Russia, Arab countries etc - and I'll naturally not open that whole discussion; my point is that I would also consider supporting dissolution of and/or secession from the EU. Not because friendly and cooperative inter-relations are bad for European countries - of course they are - but because the EU is not a good vehicle for that, it's a vehicle for realizing elite-minority political and economic interests.

einpoklum 2y ago
s/of course they are/of course they are good for them/ Excuse the confusing mistype :-(

im_dario 2y ago

I don’t know where are you located, but I’d avoid voting based on “this party won’t get a seat”. Voting for a party is a signal for other people and for the party itself. It may not be today but next time that they get that seat.