4 ms·

The problem is that the message does not speak the truth. If you can read a message it clearly must exist because you cannot read non-existent messages, can you

The problem is that the message does not speak the truth. If you can read a message it clearly must exist because you cannot read non-existent messages, can you? Can anyone? CAN ANYONE HERE READ NON-EXISTENT MESSAGES? The message should have said "This message is not saved on the server. If you close this window without copying and saving its text you cannot retrieve it from the server ever again.

streamfroster 2y ago
While this is the most sane and logical sounding way to put it, it would lose the 'philosophical' vagueness of the original notification. I still prefer the original wording
layer8 2y ago
Of course you can read non-existent messages, for example when an AI hallucinates one, or when someone shows you a photoshopped screenshot of one, or even just when you copied one to a text document before deleting the message.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  > Of course you can read non-existent messages, for example when an AI hallucinates one This message clearly exists. It's could be not factually correct, but a lie still exists.
  - layer8 2y ago
    No, it’s a citation of a message that does not exist. I wasn’t talking about a message sent by an AI, I was talking about an AI reproducing the alledged content of a purported message. If you open a text file in an editor, and then delete the file on disk, then the file does not exist anymore, but you can still read its contents in your editor. Same if you open a web page in your browser, and the page is then deleted server-side. You can still read the loaded copy of the web page in your browser, although the web page doesn’t exist anymore. The “message” in TFA’s notification is exactly like that.
    - galaxyLogic 2y ago
      It depends on how we define what we mean by the word "message". In the common sense interpretation "file" is not a "message". Nor is the display on which you are reading the message. Nor is a clay-tablet on which ancient Sumerians wrote messages. "Message" is information sent by someone to someone else. A message could be saved in a file but then the file is just the "medium" for transferring the message to its future readers. So I would think that "This message does not exist" is something like writing "This is not a pipe" on a painting of a pipe. I never understood what Marshall McLuhan meant with "Medium is the message". Medium is what makes it possible to transmit messages. Can anybody help me out, what did McLuhan mean?
nuancebydefault 2y ago
You might argue that 'not existing' in general does not even exist. It reminds me of the ted ex talk where a man states that the universe does not exist because it is everything and if we would make a list of everything, the list would not be included as a topic of the list.
- lupire 2y ago
  That's Russell's Paradox.
- sentientslug 2y ago
  I think you’re describing something akin to Cantor’s diagonal argument

streamfroster 2y ago

While this is the most sane and logical sounding way to put it, it would lose the 'philosophical' vagueness of the original notification. I still prefer the original wording

layer8 2y ago

Of course you can read non-existent messages, for example when an AI hallucinates one, or when someone shows you a photoshopped screenshot of one, or even just when you copied one to a text document before deleting the message.

madeofpalk 2y ago
> Of course you can read non-existent messages, for example when an AI hallucinates one This message clearly exists. It's could be not factually correct, but a lie still exists.
- layer8 2y ago
  No, it’s a citation of a message that does not exist. I wasn’t talking about a message sent by an AI, I was talking about an AI reproducing the alledged content of a purported message. If you open a text file in an editor, and then delete the file on disk, then the file does not exist anymore, but you can still read its contents in your editor. Same if you open a web page in your browser, and the page is then deleted server-side. You can still read the loaded copy of the web page in your browser, although the web page doesn’t exist anymore. The “message” in TFA’s notification is exactly like that.
  - galaxyLogic 2y ago
    It depends on how we define what we mean by the word "message". In the common sense interpretation "file" is not a "message". Nor is the display on which you are reading the message. Nor is a clay-tablet on which ancient Sumerians wrote messages. "Message" is information sent by someone to someone else. A message could be saved in a file but then the file is just the "medium" for transferring the message to its future readers. So I would think that "This message does not exist" is something like writing "This is not a pipe" on a painting of a pipe. I never understood what Marshall McLuhan meant with "Medium is the message". Medium is what makes it possible to transmit messages. Can anybody help me out, what did McLuhan mean?

nuancebydefault 2y ago

You might argue that 'not existing' in general does not even exist. It reminds me of the ted ex talk where a man states that the universe does not exist because it is everything and if we would make a list of everything, the list would not be included as a topic of the list.

lupire 2y ago
That's Russell's Paradox.
sentientslug 2y ago
I think you’re describing something akin to Cantor’s diagonal argument