4 ms·

Because there's demand for housing

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Sure. Ok. Let me rephrase. Then why is there demand? Why do humans want to live in a desolate desert without water? It isn't logical. Maybe allergies are better for a few people. That doesn't explain why companies would commit. Why would semiconductor companies build plants here.
- sparker72678 2y ago
  300+ days of sun, access to jobs, no snow, nice climate half the year, cheaper than California.
  - dventimi 2y ago
    Seems pretty logical to me
    - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
      Guess that is "logic" as in "human logic, what makes me feel good right now and discount all future problems". That might make sense, doesn't Phoenix also have a pretty high percentage of overweight unhealthy people? Just sitting inside with air conditioning. It fits that method of thinking.
      - dventimi 2y ago
        > Guess that is "logic" as in "human logic I assume the people living in Phoenix are humans, yes. Seems likely they're using the one and only logic available to humans.
        FrustratedMonky 2y ago
        Sorry. Forgot the </sarcasm>. The point was it is not logical, 'human logic' is fallacious. It only appears logical if it justifies what you want.
        dventimi 2y ago
        Seems pretty logical to pursue your own interests, which are inherently human and personal. We don't know the interests of the individuals who choose to live in Phoenix, so we're not in a position to say they're right or wrong, logical or illogical to do so. But, we can guess. It's easy to guess interests which would make the decision to live there completely logical. They may not be your interests or mine, but then again they're not obliged to share your interests or mine. Put another way, if it "justifies" (i.e increases the likelihood of getting) what you want, then it's not that it appears logical. It is logical.
        FrustratedMonky 2y ago
        Logic is using facts/premises plus reason. You are describing just doing what you want. Being purely self interested in order to justify your actions. Technically, being self interested isn't wrong. But it isn't Logic. Logic ""Logic studies arguments, which consist of a set of premises together with a conclusion. An example is the argument from the premises "it's Sunday" and "if it's Sunday then I don't have to work" to the conclusion "I don't have to work".[1] Premises and conclusions express propositions or claims that can be true or false."" Self Interest "First, psychological egoism is a theory about the nature of human motives. Psychological egoism suggests that all behaviors are motivated by self-interest. In other words, it suggests that every action or behavior or decision of every person is motivated by self interest. It also suggests that every action must be motivated by self interest. The doctrine of selfish motivation is simply a natural law of psychology. Just as it is a natural law of physics that bodies tend to move toward one another in proportion to their masses and at velocities inversely proportionate to their distances from one another, it is a natural law that all motivations are, ultimately, selfish." Of course, we are getting into definitions of words. And technically, I do agree, people can do what they want, there is no right or wrong. I just don't think it is logical.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  Phoenix is one of the best places to build a city in the entire southwest. It's at the confluence of two major rivers (the Gila and Salt), near a lot of decent agricultural land, and connected by canal to an extremely large river (the Colorado). It's geologically stable and land is cheap. The population is relatively high, relatively educated, and the state government is willing to give companies huge concessions to be there. People have been building along the Sonoran rivers for thousands of years and they'll probably continue for thousands more.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    This is what Phoenix looked like in 1885, long before water could be pumped long distances: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Phoenix1885-AerialMap_HiRes.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Phoenix1... There's water there to support civilization, Phoenix just grew too big.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    Thank You. This plus then overgrowth is the real answer. Nice place, too many people moved there, now kind of stuck with some tight resources.
    - scientator 2y ago
      Arguably the resources are tight because of too much agriculture, not too many people. Specifically, too much alfalfa, used to feed cows. I think the numbers are something like 70% of the water in Arizona is used to grow alfalfa. Reduce the production of alfalfa and the water scarcity disappears.
- jonhohle 2y ago
  The allergy thing is a myth. If anything, allergies are worse in Phoenix than otemhe rparts of the country. The lack of any moisture in the air keeps allergens suspended for longer. Perhaps people spend more time indoors with filtered air to come to that conclusion. Phoenix even has unique spores with its own disease (valley fever).
  - CobaltFire 2y ago
    "Valley Fever" isn't unique to Phoenix, and that isn't even the primary area it is found. It's named such for the San Jaoquin Valley in California. Even if you meant c. posadasii (one of the two fungal spores that causes it; c. immitis is the other that is restricted to California) that isn't unique to Arizona but is found in Mexico and South America as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidioidomycosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidioidomycosis

Sure. Ok. Let me rephrase. Then why is there demand? Why do humans want to live in a desolate desert without water? It isn't logical. Maybe allergies are better for a few people. That doesn't explain why companies would commit. Why would semiconductor companies build plants here.

sparker72678 2y ago
300+ days of sun, access to jobs, no snow, nice climate half the year, cheaper than California.
- dventimi 2y ago
  Seems pretty logical to me
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    Guess that is "logic" as in "human logic, what makes me feel good right now and discount all future problems". That might make sense, doesn't Phoenix also have a pretty high percentage of overweight unhealthy people? Just sitting inside with air conditioning. It fits that method of thinking.
    - dventimi 2y ago
      > Guess that is "logic" as in "human logic I assume the people living in Phoenix are humans, yes. Seems likely they're using the one and only logic available to humans.
      - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
        Sorry. Forgot the </sarcasm>. The point was it is not logical, 'human logic' is fallacious. It only appears logical if it justifies what you want.
        dventimi 2y ago
        Seems pretty logical to pursue your own interests, which are inherently human and personal. We don't know the interests of the individuals who choose to live in Phoenix, so we're not in a position to say they're right or wrong, logical or illogical to do so. But, we can guess. It's easy to guess interests which would make the decision to live there completely logical. They may not be your interests or mine, but then again they're not obliged to share your interests or mine. Put another way, if it "justifies" (i.e increases the likelihood of getting) what you want, then it's not that it appears logical. It is logical.
        FrustratedMonky 2y ago
        Logic is using facts/premises plus reason. You are describing just doing what you want. Being purely self interested in order to justify your actions. Technically, being self interested isn't wrong. But it isn't Logic. Logic ""Logic studies arguments, which consist of a set of premises together with a conclusion. An example is the argument from the premises "it's Sunday" and "if it's Sunday then I don't have to work" to the conclusion "I don't have to work".[1] Premises and conclusions express propositions or claims that can be true or false."" Self Interest "First, psychological egoism is a theory about the nature of human motives. Psychological egoism suggests that all behaviors are motivated by self-interest. In other words, it suggests that every action or behavior or decision of every person is motivated by self interest. It also suggests that every action must be motivated by self interest. The doctrine of selfish motivation is simply a natural law of psychology. Just as it is a natural law of physics that bodies tend to move toward one another in proportion to their masses and at velocities inversely proportionate to their distances from one another, it is a natural law that all motivations are, ultimately, selfish." Of course, we are getting into definitions of words. And technically, I do agree, people can do what they want, there is no right or wrong. I just don't think it is logical.
AlotOfReading 2y ago
Phoenix is one of the best places to build a city in the entire southwest. It's at the confluence of two major rivers (the Gila and Salt), near a lot of decent agricultural land, and connected by canal to an extremely large river (the Colorado). It's geologically stable and land is cheap. The population is relatively high, relatively educated, and the state government is willing to give companies huge concessions to be there. People have been building along the Sonoran rivers for thousands of years and they'll probably continue for thousands more.
- throwup238 2y ago
  This is what Phoenix looked like in 1885, long before water could be pumped long distances: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Phoenix1885-AerialMap_HiRes.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Phoenix1... There's water there to support civilization, Phoenix just grew too big.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Thank You. This plus then overgrowth is the real answer. Nice place, too many people moved there, now kind of stuck with some tight resources.
  - scientator 2y ago
    Arguably the resources are tight because of too much agriculture, not too many people. Specifically, too much alfalfa, used to feed cows. I think the numbers are something like 70% of the water in Arizona is used to grow alfalfa. Reduce the production of alfalfa and the water scarcity disappears.
jonhohle 2y ago
The allergy thing is a myth. If anything, allergies are worse in Phoenix than otemhe rparts of the country. The lack of any moisture in the air keeps allergens suspended for longer. Perhaps people spend more time indoors with filtered air to come to that conclusion. Phoenix even has unique spores with its own disease (valley fever).
- CobaltFire 2y ago
  "Valley Fever" isn't unique to Phoenix, and that isn't even the primary area it is found. It's named such for the San Jaoquin Valley in California. Even if you meant c. posadasii (one of the two fungal spores that causes it; c. immitis is the other that is restricted to California) that isn't unique to Arizona but is found in Mexico and South America as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidioidomycosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidioidomycosis