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‘If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going,’ was the decision and last line my friend said when he was planning his travel the other day, and I was playing devil’s advocate

‘If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going,’ was the decision and last line my friend said when he was planning his travel the other day, and I was playing devil’s advocate with him. But deep down, I would not recommend to anyone I know to fly on Boeing anymore, including myself. So now, in addition to the cost, bags, and stops, I will be checking if the plane is Boeing and trying to find an alternative.

greentxt 2y ago
Is that possible? Don't the airlines swap planes at the last minute?
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Obviously it's not possible to guarantee but it's definitely possible to reduce your chances of being on a Boeing aircraft.
- largbae 2y ago
  It is not perfect, but most airlines will try not to swap plane models as it breaks all the seating assignments. I think the older Boeing planes through 737-900 are as safe as ever. 737-MAX+ and 787 seem to be where the design process went awry. Even then, there seem to be known workarounds to the bugs. For what it's worth, I still fly on them all, I just remember to tell my family I love them before takeoff when the safety card has MAX on the label.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    > For what it's worth, I still fly on them all, I just remember to tell my family I love them before takeoff when the safety card has MAX on the label. That’s Boeing’s new business. Bringing families together by threatening them with death by giant fireball!
- tamimio 2y ago
  If you go to the airline website (or even other booking sites) and click on details you can see the flight, operator, and the aircraft. In fact, some websites (I think kayak) can even filter by including or excluding aircraft specific models. In worst cases, you might need to know the aircraft from the seat map. From my experience they rarely change what’s the aircraft, if they had it written, most likely it is the aircraft that you will fly with.
  - kqr 2y ago
    > some websites (I think kayak) can even filter by including or excluding aircraft specific models. This feature was added for people who wanted to avoid newer Boeing models, for context. Nobody cared what model they flew before the 737 max.
- ta1243 2y ago
  It's unlikely that BA will put a Boeing on a London-Rome flight as they don't operate short-haul Boeing planes. Yes they could put a long haul on there, yes they could wet-lease another one, but those are very unlikely situations. If you choose to fly Ryanair on the route instead, you are almost certain to get a Boeing 737. If you care enough then you have to vote with your wallet, it's the only say you have.
- jules-jules 2y ago
  You can fly an all airbus carrier to avoid this scenario. JetBlue for instance in the US.
  - xvector 2y ago
    It is not even worth the brain time to think about this when, if you take the past decade of domestic commercial aviation, you're 150,000x more likely to die on your drive to the airport.
xvector 2y ago
Will you also avoid ever getting in a car? Because statistically speaking, you're far more likely to die in a car crash than in a Boeing plane. Edit: In the last decade, in the US, about 2 people have been killed from aviation, and 365,000 people from car crashes.
- starttoaster 2y ago
  You also have some control over the car whereas your life is entirely in the hands of some random people you don’t know and some Boeing equipment in the plane.
  - jeromegv 2y ago
    As if people don’t get hit by other drivers.
    - starttoaster 2y ago
      I never said other people don't get hit by other drivers. Take a step back, you are having an emotional reaction and not thinking clearly. What I mean is: people in general feel more comfortable having some form of control. Autopilot is fine until autopilot stops working, and then you want to have a method of taking over as pilot. In a plane where you have a hurt sense of confidence in the plane's integrity, it would be easy to imagine increased anxiety for people because they have no control; all they can do is sit in their seat and try not to panic. That's hard for some people, if not everyone. Especially in a situation where the plane is actively malfunctioning.
  - kqr 2y ago
    If it was anywhere close to feasible, I would absolutely prefer a pair of professional pilots up front driving my car. Their training, systems knowledge, checklists, emergency procedures, etc. are far better than anything I can do when I exercise "some control over the car".
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  How costly is it to one's quality of life to avoid being in a car versus having a different departure time and sitting on an Airbus instead?
lynndotpy 2y ago
I share this sentiment. "Survival rates are averages taken in the past" was a reassuring refrain in the context of terminal illness and risky surgery, with the assumption that survival rates improve over time. But the same words also apply to air travel, without the same assumption.
senordevnyc 2y ago
I'm pretty shocked at how many here seem to agree with you. Your chances of dying in a Boeing aircraft went from something like 1 in 10 billion to 1 in 9.999999 billion. Why bother thinking about this at all? Even if risk reduction is your #1 priority in life, there's a near-infinite list of better ways to reduce your risk than trying to pick Airbus aircraft over Boeing. What am I missing?
- nabla9 2y ago
  >What am I missing? Statistics collected over decades don't apply when circumstances change. If Boeing safety reached critical tipping point recently, we are can talk only in 1 in tens of millions safety at best. There are less than 20 million commercial Boeing flights per year. 737 MAX flies only fraction of those.

greentxt 2y ago

Is that possible? Don't the airlines swap planes at the last minute?

llamaimperative 2y ago
Obviously it's not possible to guarantee but it's definitely possible to reduce your chances of being on a Boeing aircraft.
largbae 2y ago
It is not perfect, but most airlines will try not to swap plane models as it breaks all the seating assignments. I think the older Boeing planes through 737-900 are as safe as ever. 737-MAX+ and 787 seem to be where the design process went awry. Even then, there seem to be known workarounds to the bugs. For what it's worth, I still fly on them all, I just remember to tell my family I love them before takeoff when the safety card has MAX on the label.
- throwup238 2y ago
  > For what it's worth, I still fly on them all, I just remember to tell my family I love them before takeoff when the safety card has MAX on the label. That’s Boeing’s new business. Bringing families together by threatening them with death by giant fireball!
tamimio 2y ago
If you go to the airline website (or even other booking sites) and click on details you can see the flight, operator, and the aircraft. In fact, some websites (I think kayak) can even filter by including or excluding aircraft specific models. In worst cases, you might need to know the aircraft from the seat map. From my experience they rarely change what’s the aircraft, if they had it written, most likely it is the aircraft that you will fly with.
- kqr 2y ago
  > some websites (I think kayak) can even filter by including or excluding aircraft specific models. This feature was added for people who wanted to avoid newer Boeing models, for context. Nobody cared what model they flew before the 737 max.
ta1243 2y ago
It's unlikely that BA will put a Boeing on a London-Rome flight as they don't operate short-haul Boeing planes. Yes they could put a long haul on there, yes they could wet-lease another one, but those are very unlikely situations. If you choose to fly Ryanair on the route instead, you are almost certain to get a Boeing 737. If you care enough then you have to vote with your wallet, it's the only say you have.
jules-jules 2y ago
You can fly an all airbus carrier to avoid this scenario. JetBlue for instance in the US.
- xvector 2y ago
  It is not even worth the brain time to think about this when, if you take the past decade of domestic commercial aviation, you're 150,000x more likely to die on your drive to the airport.

xvector 2y ago

Will you also avoid ever getting in a car? Because statistically speaking, you're far more likely to die in a car crash than in a Boeing plane. Edit: In the last decade, in the US, about 2 people have been killed from aviation, and 365,000 people from car crashes.

starttoaster 2y ago
You also have some control over the car whereas your life is entirely in the hands of some random people you don’t know and some Boeing equipment in the plane.
- jeromegv 2y ago
  As if people don’t get hit by other drivers.
  - starttoaster 2y ago
    I never said other people don't get hit by other drivers. Take a step back, you are having an emotional reaction and not thinking clearly. What I mean is: people in general feel more comfortable having some form of control. Autopilot is fine until autopilot stops working, and then you want to have a method of taking over as pilot. In a plane where you have a hurt sense of confidence in the plane's integrity, it would be easy to imagine increased anxiety for people because they have no control; all they can do is sit in their seat and try not to panic. That's hard for some people, if not everyone. Especially in a situation where the plane is actively malfunctioning.
- kqr 2y ago
  If it was anywhere close to feasible, I would absolutely prefer a pair of professional pilots up front driving my car. Their training, systems knowledge, checklists, emergency procedures, etc. are far better than anything I can do when I exercise "some control over the car".
llamaimperative 2y ago
How costly is it to one's quality of life to avoid being in a car versus having a different departure time and sitting on an Airbus instead?

lynndotpy 2y ago

I share this sentiment. "Survival rates are averages taken in the past" was a reassuring refrain in the context of terminal illness and risky surgery, with the assumption that survival rates improve over time. But the same words also apply to air travel, without the same assumption.

senordevnyc 2y ago

I'm pretty shocked at how many here seem to agree with you. Your chances of dying in a Boeing aircraft went from something like 1 in 10 billion to 1 in 9.999999 billion. Why bother thinking about this at all? Even if risk reduction is your #1 priority in life, there's a near-infinite list of better ways to reduce your risk than trying to pick Airbus aircraft over Boeing. What am I missing?

nabla9 2y ago
>What am I missing? Statistics collected over decades don't apply when circumstances change. If Boeing safety reached critical tipping point recently, we are can talk only in 1 in tens of millions safety at best. There are less than 20 million commercial Boeing flights per year. 737 MAX flies only fraction of those.