5 ms·

After Bollinger's no longer making cars, what's a good EV with no BS at all? No spyware, touch screens, etc?

constantcrying 2y ago
>what's a good EV with no BS at all? No spyware, touch screens, etc? Illegal to sell new, at least in Europe and US (see e.g. driver drowsiness detection) and very few people actually want such a car. The only reason to ever make such a car would be for low cost, production, but in the car industry low cost can only be achieved with high volumes and since such a car absolutely has no mass appeal it is a pretty dead concept.
- Angostura 2y ago
  You can do things like drowsiness detection and keep it entirely local and private - in theory.
  - roywiggins 2y ago
    It kinda of has to be local, otherwise the car would be illegal to drive outside of cellphone service, wouldn't it?
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    Yes, but the drowsiness detection alone implies a huge variety of electronics inside the car. Besides drowsiness detection there is also emergency calling in case of a crash. So your car already has to have a significant central processor, GPS, cellular connection and all the other interconnections needed to make that work.
- dhbradshaw 2y ago
  I don't think we're as rare as you think we are.
  - smt88 2y ago
    You can be "not that rare" and still not worth producing a car for. We've seen the same thing with small phones.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    Besides the legal aspects (which prohibit sich cars from existing), such a car needs to be largely developed from scratch, as it obviously can't use any of the existing E/E, so a new one has to de developed, this includes essentially a new platform development with the new E/E. I can only guess the development costs, but they will be somewhere in the billions. There is no way any car manufacturer is stupid enough for that.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Niche markets always think that. But often the cost of providing approaches the cost of independent design partnering with a manufacturer. So you're probably only 20% price increase away from co-opping it. And everyone who has tried to sell anything knows that "I would pay for that" are words most commonly spoken by people who assuredly would not pay for that.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    There is a huge market for cheaper cars. But, that market is also served by used cars, which are larger and more comfortable. Used cars outsell new cars by about 3:1 in the US. And if you look at the actual sales figures for the cheapest new cars on the US market, the situation is clear: buyers prefer nicer used cars to minimalistic new cars.
- speedgoose 2y ago
  TPMS sensors (tire pressure monitoring system) are also mandatory on new vehicles. They conveniently broadcast unique identifiers. And the license plates of course.
kwhitefoot 2y ago
Just buy a car and get someone competent to do an EV conversion. That would probably be cheaper than a Bollinger anyway. "Bollinger says its pickup and SUV will each cost $125,000" https://www.inverse.com/innovation/bollinger-b1-b2-release-date-price-specs-range-hybrid https://www.inverse.com/innovation/bollinger-b1-b2-release-d... Sounds rather optimistic to me.
smt88 2y ago
Not sure about spyware, but Mazda committed to getting rid of touch controls for the actual functions of the car (shifting, A/C, etc.)
- moogly 2y ago
  You're going to have to wait a while before Mazda releases a real EV. I think the MX-30 (their only BEV) is probably underrated as a very short range city car (I dunno why it's so reviled and the BMW i3 is a cult classic, and I've driven an i3s), but it does not work outside a city IMO.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    I've had the same thought about the MX-30. It's too pricey for my blood, but spec-wise it looks perfect for my two-car household that is going to maintain an ICE for out-of-city trips.
    - pornel 2y ago
      MX-30 is a compliance car. It's a hybrid with the engine ripped out - there's literally huge empty space under the hood, but they haven't even bothered to move things around to make a frunk.
      - Marsymars 2y ago
        Sure, but the state of the market means there’s nothing better. The reasonable competitors don’t have equivalent battery capacity and extra space under the hood, they have extra battery, which for my use is worse than empty space, it’s extra cost upfront plus extra weight to lug around.
        pornel 2y ago
        MX-30 is not particularly light, nor spacious compared to other "city" EVs. I get that Mazda has a reputable brand, but MX-30 is just an F.U. to the state of California. Mazda sells less than 10 of them per month. Not ten thousand. Just ten. There are small-battery trims of many EVs in the similar price range, usually with faster charging and better range: Kona, MG4, e-C4, Zoe, e-208, Fiat e500, for a slightly higher price there's Volvo EX30. And among short-range difficult-to-charge cars Leaf is cheaper.
semi-extrinsic 2y ago
I haven't tried one, but the Dacia Spring looks to nicely fit this bill. Hopefully they will do a larger EV soon, something like a next-gen fully electric Duster or Jogger.
throwaway4good 2y ago
The Sinclair C5.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Melex!
ajross 2y ago
> no BS at all? No spyware, touch screens, etc If that's your definition of BS, then there's basically no vehicle on the market for you, with any energy source. But we can read the subtext: you want an EV but don't want to buy a Tesla. My advice to you is to rent a Model 3/Y LR for a few weeks from Turo or wherever and see if your actual problems are with the actual technical details you think are your problem. Most likely they're not, and in fact you're probably going to recoil from the idea of driving the car at all. In which case, well, at least you know to have the fight on the right grounds. "I hate Musk" is unfalsifiable, so the rest of us can stop trying to explain how well the UI actually works.

>what's a good EV with no BS at all? No spyware, touch screens, etc? Illegal to sell new, at least in Europe and US (see e.g. driver drowsiness detection) and very few people actually want such a car. The only reason to ever make such a car would be for low cost, production, but in the car industry low cost can only be achieved with high volumes and since such a car absolutely has no mass appeal it is a pretty dead concept.

Angostura 2y ago
You can do things like drowsiness detection and keep it entirely local and private - in theory.
- roywiggins 2y ago
  It kinda of has to be local, otherwise the car would be illegal to drive outside of cellphone service, wouldn't it?
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Yes, but the drowsiness detection alone implies a huge variety of electronics inside the car. Besides drowsiness detection there is also emergency calling in case of a crash. So your car already has to have a significant central processor, GPS, cellular connection and all the other interconnections needed to make that work.
dhbradshaw 2y ago
I don't think we're as rare as you think we are.
- smt88 2y ago
  You can be "not that rare" and still not worth producing a car for. We've seen the same thing with small phones.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Besides the legal aspects (which prohibit sich cars from existing), such a car needs to be largely developed from scratch, as it obviously can't use any of the existing E/E, so a new one has to de developed, this includes essentially a new platform development with the new E/E. I can only guess the development costs, but they will be somewhere in the billions. There is no way any car manufacturer is stupid enough for that.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Niche markets always think that. But often the cost of providing approaches the cost of independent design partnering with a manufacturer. So you're probably only 20% price increase away from co-opping it. And everyone who has tried to sell anything knows that "I would pay for that" are words most commonly spoken by people who assuredly would not pay for that.
- kube-system 2y ago
  There is a huge market for cheaper cars. But, that market is also served by used cars, which are larger and more comfortable. Used cars outsell new cars by about 3:1 in the US. And if you look at the actual sales figures for the cheapest new cars on the US market, the situation is clear: buyers prefer nicer used cars to minimalistic new cars.
speedgoose 2y ago
TPMS sensors (tire pressure monitoring system) are also mandatory on new vehicles. They conveniently broadcast unique identifiers. And the license plates of course.

kwhitefoot 2y ago

Just buy a car and get someone competent to do an EV conversion. That would probably be cheaper than a Bollinger anyway. "Bollinger says its pickup and SUV will each cost $125,000" https://www.inverse.com/innovation/bollinger-b1-b2-release-date-price-specs-range-hybrid https://www.inverse.com/innovation/bollinger-b1-b2-release-d... Sounds rather optimistic to me.

smt88 2y ago

Not sure about spyware, but Mazda committed to getting rid of touch controls for the actual functions of the car (shifting, A/C, etc.)

moogly 2y ago
You're going to have to wait a while before Mazda releases a real EV. I think the MX-30 (their only BEV) is probably underrated as a very short range city car (I dunno why it's so reviled and the BMW i3 is a cult classic, and I've driven an i3s), but it does not work outside a city IMO.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  I've had the same thought about the MX-30. It's too pricey for my blood, but spec-wise it looks perfect for my two-car household that is going to maintain an ICE for out-of-city trips.
  - pornel 2y ago
    MX-30 is a compliance car. It's a hybrid with the engine ripped out - there's literally huge empty space under the hood, but they haven't even bothered to move things around to make a frunk.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      Sure, but the state of the market means there’s nothing better. The reasonable competitors don’t have equivalent battery capacity and extra space under the hood, they have extra battery, which for my use is worse than empty space, it’s extra cost upfront plus extra weight to lug around.
      - pornel 2y ago
        MX-30 is not particularly light, nor spacious compared to other "city" EVs. I get that Mazda has a reputable brand, but MX-30 is just an F.U. to the state of California. Mazda sells less than 10 of them per month. Not ten thousand. Just ten. There are small-battery trims of many EVs in the similar price range, usually with faster charging and better range: Kona, MG4, e-C4, Zoe, e-208, Fiat e500, for a slightly higher price there's Volvo EX30. And among short-range difficult-to-charge cars Leaf is cheaper.

semi-extrinsic 2y ago

I haven't tried one, but the Dacia Spring looks to nicely fit this bill. Hopefully they will do a larger EV soon, something like a next-gen fully electric Duster or Jogger.

throwaway4good 2y ago

The Sinclair C5.

surfingdino 2y ago
Melex!

ajross 2y ago

> no BS at all? No spyware, touch screens, etc If that's your definition of BS, then there's basically no vehicle on the market for you, with any energy source. But we can read the subtext: you want an EV but don't want to buy a Tesla. My advice to you is to rent a Model 3/Y LR for a few weeks from Turo or wherever and see if your actual problems are with the actual technical details you think are your problem. Most likely they're not, and in fact you're probably going to recoil from the idea of driving the car at all. In which case, well, at least you know to have the fight on the right grounds. "I hate Musk" is unfalsifiable, so the rest of us can stop trying to explain how well the UI actually works.