3 ms·

What is an application server exactly and who besides nginx is building one?

pjmlp 2y ago
Apache with mod_tcl, mod_perl, mod_php, Websphere, JBoss (now Wildfly), Payara, IIS/.NET, Erlang/BEAM... Basically a full stack experience from programming language, web framework and networking protocols, possibly with a management dashboard. As for who is building one everyone that is now trying to sell the idea of packaging WebAssembly into containers, deploying them into managed Kubernetes clusters, or alternatively cloud managed applications, like Vercel, Nelify, Azure Container Apps, Cloud Run,....
- anentropic 2y ago
  > everyone that is now trying to sell the idea of packaging WebAssembly into containers, deploying them into managed Kubernetes clusters, or alternatively cloud managed applications Does Nginx Unit really fit into this picture though? Is there a place for an all-in-one app server in that scenario, I would have thought they want each component to be separated (wasm host, load balancer, etc etc) for commoditisation and independent scaling of different layers (This is not a criticism in form of a question... I am honestly curious)
  - callahad 2y ago
    Absolutely keep your load balancer for multi-node scaling, but how are you going to run you WebAssembly workloads within a given node? Unit can do that. Or what if you have a single logical service that's composed of a mix of Wasm endpoints and static assets augmenting a traditional Python application? Unit pulls that all together into a single, unified thing to configure and deploy. If you're writing Node, Go, or Rust you haven't had to think about application servers for a long time. Folks writing Python and PHP still do, and WebAssembly will require the same supporting infrastructure since Wasm -- by definition -- is not a native binary format for any existing platform. :)
    - anentropic 2y ago
      Well there are other dedicated "WASM in k8s" solutions like SpinKube and my Python apps have not been behind Nginx for a long time, they're mostly wrapped in a zero-config gunicorn runner in a Docker container, static assets in S3 via a CDN am wondering who wants a single-node heterogenous application server these days TBH the simplicity of it is appealing though
      - callahad 2y ago
        IMHO, it's still a few years a early for pure-play Wasm solutions, though Fermyon is doing exceptional work to manifest that future. My hope is that Unit can offer a pragmatic bridge: run your existing applications as-is, and when you want to sprinkle in some Wasm, we're ready. That's not to say Wasm is Unit's only use case, but do believe it's what will get people thinking about application servers again. :) > my Python apps have not been behind Nginx for a long time, they're mostly wrapped in a zero-config gunicorn runner in a Docker container, static assets in S3 via a CDN ...and are there any reverse proxies, load balancers, or caches on the network path between your end user and your container? ;)
        anentropic 2y ago
        yes there are of course, but typically like an ALB from the cloud platform

Apache with mod_tcl, mod_perl, mod_php, Websphere, JBoss (now Wildfly), Payara, IIS/.NET, Erlang/BEAM... Basically a full stack experience from programming language, web framework and networking protocols, possibly with a management dashboard. As for who is building one everyone that is now trying to sell the idea of packaging WebAssembly into containers, deploying them into managed Kubernetes clusters, or alternatively cloud managed applications, like Vercel, Nelify, Azure Container Apps, Cloud Run,....

anentropic 2y ago
> everyone that is now trying to sell the idea of packaging WebAssembly into containers, deploying them into managed Kubernetes clusters, or alternatively cloud managed applications Does Nginx Unit really fit into this picture though? Is there a place for an all-in-one app server in that scenario, I would have thought they want each component to be separated (wasm host, load balancer, etc etc) for commoditisation and independent scaling of different layers (This is not a criticism in form of a question... I am honestly curious)
- callahad 2y ago
  Absolutely keep your load balancer for multi-node scaling, but how are you going to run you WebAssembly workloads within a given node? Unit can do that. Or what if you have a single logical service that's composed of a mix of Wasm endpoints and static assets augmenting a traditional Python application? Unit pulls that all together into a single, unified thing to configure and deploy. If you're writing Node, Go, or Rust you haven't had to think about application servers for a long time. Folks writing Python and PHP still do, and WebAssembly will require the same supporting infrastructure since Wasm -- by definition -- is not a native binary format for any existing platform. :)
  - anentropic 2y ago
    Well there are other dedicated "WASM in k8s" solutions like SpinKube and my Python apps have not been behind Nginx for a long time, they're mostly wrapped in a zero-config gunicorn runner in a Docker container, static assets in S3 via a CDN am wondering who wants a single-node heterogenous application server these days TBH the simplicity of it is appealing though
    - callahad 2y ago
      IMHO, it's still a few years a early for pure-play Wasm solutions, though Fermyon is doing exceptional work to manifest that future. My hope is that Unit can offer a pragmatic bridge: run your existing applications as-is, and when you want to sprinkle in some Wasm, we're ready. That's not to say Wasm is Unit's only use case, but do believe it's what will get people thinking about application servers again. :) > my Python apps have not been behind Nginx for a long time, they're mostly wrapped in a zero-config gunicorn runner in a Docker container, static assets in S3 via a CDN ...and are there any reverse proxies, load balancers, or caches on the network path between your end user and your container? ;)
      - anentropic 2y ago
        yes there are of course, but typically like an ALB from the cloud platform