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>new fad just like keto diet The keto diet has been around over 100 years and it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy to reproduce th

>new fad just like keto diet The keto diet has been around over 100 years and it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy to reproduce the benefits of fasting - which has been known for thousands of years to prevent seizures - while providing a long term solution and not deprive children of calories. It’s not exactly a fad, it’s just that there are a lot more studies being conducted on the benefits - like fasting studies which lead the discovery of autophagy and the Nobel prize in 2016. The idea sugar is rocket fuel for the brain, is a little misguided. Certain sugars spike insulin triggering anabolic response getting glucose to the cells quickly, but that doesn’t make glucose more efficient for the brain. Ketones are smaller than glucose molecules and more efficient at crossing the blood brain barrier. Rocket fuel for the brain is being in a deep state of ketosis and consuming medium chain fatty acids (e.g. coconut oil) or beta hydroxybutyrate (i.e. exogenous ketones).

Aurornis 2y ago
> The keto diet has been around over 100 years and it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy Yes, exactly. It was developed and studied in the context of epilepsy treatment. The current wave of keto influencers are pushing it as something else, though. I have tried keto and noticed some interesting effects, but the impact on certain parameters of my lipid bloodwork was undeniably bad no matter what I tried. The keto community works overtime to downplay the possible negative effects of the diet, but actual cardio and lipid researchers have very different opinions.
- dcow 2y ago
  I don’t think it’s so insidious. People see real benefit and results from highly restricting carbs. Something is happening, it’s not just a fad. Sure, it’s fine to debate the pros and cons but to outright disparage it because there a community of excited people who have had life changing experiences talking about it positively seems overly reactionary.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Yeah, those excited folks go often a bit mental over the board and praise it like second coming of Jesus, that's what most folks have problems with. Rational discussion about pros and cons is rare.
    - dcow 2y ago
      When you’ve been unhealthy and struggling to maintain a healthy body for years in a society that indexes way way way to heavily on carbs because they’re cheap and equally isn’t honest about the toxicity of glucose, you can kinda see why people get so enthusiastic about it. Sure it can be annoying but there are problems on both sides and people that say sugar is fine eat it at will are starting to come off as maliciously delusional to me of late.
    - throwawaycities 2y ago
      Discovering health tends to do that to people. It doesn’t matter if it’s discovering keto, carnivore, vegetarian, vegan, or exercise. When people commit to improving their health, and begin to experience improvements, for better or worse it is like the second coming of Jesus. Particularly diabetics that make lifestyle changes, lose significant amounts of weight and get off insulin. Nearly everyone who experiences that feels that if they can do it anyone can do it, and they tend to share their experiences enthusiastically and rightfully so.
  - shlant 2y ago
    > Something is happening, it’s not just a fad these are not mutually exclusive. It is a fad AND something is happening. That something comes down to two major things about low carb/carnivore diets: 1. You are removing processed foods. Going from a Standard American Diet to basically anything that involves more whole foods is going to be healthier for you and make you feel better. This doesn't mean that the new diet is optimal but it can be a step in the right direction. 2. Restricting your diet down to a few types of food is going to remove a lot of allergens. If you only eat meat for example, you are removing literally every single non-meat allergen in your diet - most people have some sort of food sensitivity (lactose intolerance being a common one) so you are going to feel better when you remove those allergens. However, this does not mean that accidental elimination diets are the long term solution. You should slowly add back foods and see what you react to so you can do something less extreme but still feel good doing it. So yes a lot of people feel better on these diets but that does not indicate they are healthy long term or superior to other options.
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  And you are probably basing that on the fact that the two standard lipid markers for HDL and LDL went up, right? And you probably ignored any that the ratio probably improved between "good" and "bad" lipids? I guess you didn't just eat lots of bad fats but also improved the composition of fats you ate? Lipid research is sponsored by pharma a lot. They need to push their statins. Anecdotal datum of one: I happen to have high cholesterol no matter what I do. You have to fast in order to do the lipid blood tests. Sometimes I forgot to fast and have even eaten eggs. My lipid profile was better in those cases. I also got muscle cramps from taking statins. The heart is a muscle and those cramps can kill you. Instantly.
  - shlant 2y ago
    > And you probably ignored any that the ratio probably improved between "good" and "bad" lipids? "For predicting your risk of heart disease, many healthcare professionals now believe that determining your non-HDL cholesterol level may be more useful than calculating your cholesterol ratio"[1]. Additionally, "extremely high HDL-C levels are associated with an increased risk of age-related macular degeneration (also genetically), infectious disease, and all-cause mortality."[2] [1]https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol-ratio/faq-20058006 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10119031/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10119031/ > Lipid research is sponsored by pharma a lot. They need to push their statins. A comment in a keto/low carb discussion believing in a statin conspiracy? shocked. > Anecdotal datum of one Entirely irrelevant
    - tharkun__ 2y ago
      [1] It's funny. My Browser shows I visited that link before ;) A comment in a keto/low carb discussion believing in a statin conspiracy? shocked. I'm not on Keto. I'm not on an actual low carb diet. I'm just not afraid of eating lots of good fats. I'm not afraid of eggs or cream any longer. I don't believe in a "statin conspiracy". There's no conspiracy needed. We've seen over and over again with lots of things that companies favor funding research that shows something that sells their product or they outright lie (sorry "do marketing"). Leaded gasoline? Milk is good for you, make your children drink more? Butter is bad? The statins causing muscle cramps are a fact and not a conspiracy. I got statins in ever increasing dosages because they didn't help. When the cramps started, my doctor took me off statins. When I then did try Keto all of my blood markers that were either bad or borderline went into completely normal territory. Except for lipids that did the usual "hover around some really high and absolutely bad for you territory". Again, a datum of one. But when all the things done to me with evidence from statistically relevant studies and research doesn't help and actually makes things worse but the statistically not significant thing works to improve all of the markers of statistically proven blood testing, then this anecdotal internet person here will stick with what works. YMMV as always. Entirely irrelevant My anecdotal datum of one was marked as such. On purpose. No need for this entirely irrelevant comment of yours. The person I replied to did not and drew a wide ranging societally generalizing argument from his datum of one.
- dawnerd 2y ago
  Keto influencers? My doctor recommended it for weight loss and it’s probably saved my life. You’re being pretty negative because of your once experience on something that does help people and does have results.
- throwawaycities 2y ago
  I think you are throwing the baby out with the bath water, sure there are probably influencers pedaling keto product, just like corn, eggs, coffee, sugar, cereal, and meat have entire lobbying industries pedaling bad science and bad food stuffs. But when you reply “yes, exactly” to the fact that the keto diet was developed in a clinical setting over 100 years ago to mimic the benefits of fasting and offer a n=1 anecdote about your lipid panel, that’s no better than anyone you are accusing of downplaying possible negative effects.
shlant 2y ago
> it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy to reproduce the benefits of fasting - which has been known for thousands of years to prevent seizures - while providing a long term solution and not deprive children of calories. I don't know why people still use this as any sort of argument for keto in the general population. Most people are not children with epilepsy and even for children, the keto/low carb diets has many downsides most notably growth retardation, kidney stones and bone mineral loss.
- throwawaycities 2y ago
  When people wrongly claim keto is a new “fad diet” you don’t know why people would point out that it’s been around for over 100 years highlighting there are ample subjects that had adhered to it their entire lives from childhood? Are there many diets that have lifelong adherents over their lifetimes over the last 100 years from the general population that have been studied?
  - shlant 2y ago
    > When people wrongly claim keto is a new “fad diet” you don’t know why people would point out that it’s been around for over 100 years Again, these are not mutually exclusive. Even if the idea of a keto diet has been around for 100 years, that doesn't mean that right now it is not a fad (a style, activity, or interest that is very popular for a short period of time). It was never popular before, it is now and it almost certainly won't be in 10 years or so. >Are there many diets that have lifelong adherents over their lifetimes over the last 100 years from the general population that have been studied? who are these people who have done keto their whole lives and have been studied? Can you share the case studies?
    - throwawaycities 2y ago
      Seems to be a logic problem… >Keto is a fad >no it’s a diet developed in clinical setting been around more than 100 years >I don’t know why people bring up that its not relevant >yes, it directly contradicts what OP said >it’s no mutually exclusive, sure it’s been around 100 years, but it’s a far and won’t be around in 10 >Are there diets that have life long adherents over the last 100 years that have been studied? >show your studies I think someone like you would be better off googling. You should easily find studies supporting as many as 70% of epilepsy patients who are treated with keto as children can get off of keto after 5 years without any seizures and no longer need any medication. You should also be able to find studies of long term keto diets, ‘long term’ as defined within the studies themselves, covering various types of individuals and get yourself a healthy perspective on the overwhelmingly positive outcomes and to a fat lesser extent the negative outcomes. Good luck!

Aurornis 2y ago

> The keto diet has been around over 100 years and it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy Yes, exactly. It was developed and studied in the context of epilepsy treatment. The current wave of keto influencers are pushing it as something else, though. I have tried keto and noticed some interesting effects, but the impact on certain parameters of my lipid bloodwork was undeniably bad no matter what I tried. The keto community works overtime to downplay the possible negative effects of the diet, but actual cardio and lipid researchers have very different opinions.

dcow 2y ago
I don’t think it’s so insidious. People see real benefit and results from highly restricting carbs. Something is happening, it’s not just a fad. Sure, it’s fine to debate the pros and cons but to outright disparage it because there a community of excited people who have had life changing experiences talking about it positively seems overly reactionary.
- jajko 2y ago
  Yeah, those excited folks go often a bit mental over the board and praise it like second coming of Jesus, that's what most folks have problems with. Rational discussion about pros and cons is rare.
  - dcow 2y ago
    When you’ve been unhealthy and struggling to maintain a healthy body for years in a society that indexes way way way to heavily on carbs because they’re cheap and equally isn’t honest about the toxicity of glucose, you can kinda see why people get so enthusiastic about it. Sure it can be annoying but there are problems on both sides and people that say sugar is fine eat it at will are starting to come off as maliciously delusional to me of late.
  - throwawaycities 2y ago
    Discovering health tends to do that to people. It doesn’t matter if it’s discovering keto, carnivore, vegetarian, vegan, or exercise. When people commit to improving their health, and begin to experience improvements, for better or worse it is like the second coming of Jesus. Particularly diabetics that make lifestyle changes, lose significant amounts of weight and get off insulin. Nearly everyone who experiences that feels that if they can do it anyone can do it, and they tend to share their experiences enthusiastically and rightfully so.
- shlant 2y ago
  > Something is happening, it’s not just a fad these are not mutually exclusive. It is a fad AND something is happening. That something comes down to two major things about low carb/carnivore diets: 1. You are removing processed foods. Going from a Standard American Diet to basically anything that involves more whole foods is going to be healthier for you and make you feel better. This doesn't mean that the new diet is optimal but it can be a step in the right direction. 2. Restricting your diet down to a few types of food is going to remove a lot of allergens. If you only eat meat for example, you are removing literally every single non-meat allergen in your diet - most people have some sort of food sensitivity (lactose intolerance being a common one) so you are going to feel better when you remove those allergens. However, this does not mean that accidental elimination diets are the long term solution. You should slowly add back foods and see what you react to so you can do something less extreme but still feel good doing it. So yes a lot of people feel better on these diets but that does not indicate they are healthy long term or superior to other options.
tharkun__ 2y ago
And you are probably basing that on the fact that the two standard lipid markers for HDL and LDL went up, right? And you probably ignored any that the ratio probably improved between "good" and "bad" lipids? I guess you didn't just eat lots of bad fats but also improved the composition of fats you ate? Lipid research is sponsored by pharma a lot. They need to push their statins. Anecdotal datum of one: I happen to have high cholesterol no matter what I do. You have to fast in order to do the lipid blood tests. Sometimes I forgot to fast and have even eaten eggs. My lipid profile was better in those cases. I also got muscle cramps from taking statins. The heart is a muscle and those cramps can kill you. Instantly.
- shlant 2y ago
  > And you probably ignored any that the ratio probably improved between "good" and "bad" lipids? "For predicting your risk of heart disease, many healthcare professionals now believe that determining your non-HDL cholesterol level may be more useful than calculating your cholesterol ratio"[1]. Additionally, "extremely high HDL-C levels are associated with an increased risk of age-related macular degeneration (also genetically), infectious disease, and all-cause mortality."[2] [1]https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/expert-answers/cholesterol-ratio/faq-20058006 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-ch... [2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10119031/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10119031/ > Lipid research is sponsored by pharma a lot. They need to push their statins. A comment in a keto/low carb discussion believing in a statin conspiracy? shocked. > Anecdotal datum of one Entirely irrelevant
  - tharkun__ 2y ago
    [1] It's funny. My Browser shows I visited that link before ;) A comment in a keto/low carb discussion believing in a statin conspiracy? shocked. I'm not on Keto. I'm not on an actual low carb diet. I'm just not afraid of eating lots of good fats. I'm not afraid of eggs or cream any longer. I don't believe in a "statin conspiracy". There's no conspiracy needed. We've seen over and over again with lots of things that companies favor funding research that shows something that sells their product or they outright lie (sorry "do marketing"). Leaded gasoline? Milk is good for you, make your children drink more? Butter is bad? The statins causing muscle cramps are a fact and not a conspiracy. I got statins in ever increasing dosages because they didn't help. When the cramps started, my doctor took me off statins. When I then did try Keto all of my blood markers that were either bad or borderline went into completely normal territory. Except for lipids that did the usual "hover around some really high and absolutely bad for you territory". Again, a datum of one. But when all the things done to me with evidence from statistically relevant studies and research doesn't help and actually makes things worse but the statistically not significant thing works to improve all of the markers of statistically proven blood testing, then this anecdotal internet person here will stick with what works. YMMV as always. Entirely irrelevant My anecdotal datum of one was marked as such. On purpose. No need for this entirely irrelevant comment of yours. The person I replied to did not and drew a wide ranging societally generalizing argument from his datum of one.
dawnerd 2y ago
Keto influencers? My doctor recommended it for weight loss and it’s probably saved my life. You’re being pretty negative because of your once experience on something that does help people and does have results.
throwawaycities 2y ago
I think you are throwing the baby out with the bath water, sure there are probably influencers pedaling keto product, just like corn, eggs, coffee, sugar, cereal, and meat have entire lobbying industries pedaling bad science and bad food stuffs. But when you reply “yes, exactly” to the fact that the keto diet was developed in a clinical setting over 100 years ago to mimic the benefits of fasting and offer a n=1 anecdote about your lipid panel, that’s no better than anyone you are accusing of downplaying possible negative effects.

shlant 2y ago

> it was developed in a clinical setting for children with epilepsy to reproduce the benefits of fasting - which has been known for thousands of years to prevent seizures - while providing a long term solution and not deprive children of calories. I don't know why people still use this as any sort of argument for keto in the general population. Most people are not children with epilepsy and even for children, the keto/low carb diets has many downsides most notably growth retardation, kidney stones and bone mineral loss.

throwawaycities 2y ago
When people wrongly claim keto is a new “fad diet” you don’t know why people would point out that it’s been around for over 100 years highlighting there are ample subjects that had adhered to it their entire lives from childhood? Are there many diets that have lifelong adherents over their lifetimes over the last 100 years from the general population that have been studied?
- shlant 2y ago
  > When people wrongly claim keto is a new “fad diet” you don’t know why people would point out that it’s been around for over 100 years Again, these are not mutually exclusive. Even if the idea of a keto diet has been around for 100 years, that doesn't mean that right now it is not a fad (a style, activity, or interest that is very popular for a short period of time). It was never popular before, it is now and it almost certainly won't be in 10 years or so. >Are there many diets that have lifelong adherents over their lifetimes over the last 100 years from the general population that have been studied? who are these people who have done keto their whole lives and have been studied? Can you share the case studies?
  - throwawaycities 2y ago
    Seems to be a logic problem… >Keto is a fad >no it’s a diet developed in clinical setting been around more than 100 years >I don’t know why people bring up that its not relevant >yes, it directly contradicts what OP said >it’s no mutually exclusive, sure it’s been around 100 years, but it’s a far and won’t be around in 10 >Are there diets that have life long adherents over the last 100 years that have been studied? >show your studies I think someone like you would be better off googling. You should easily find studies supporting as many as 70% of epilepsy patients who are treated with keto as children can get off of keto after 5 years without any seizures and no longer need any medication. You should also be able to find studies of long term keto diets, ‘long term’ as defined within the studies themselves, covering various types of individuals and get yourself a healthy perspective on the overwhelmingly positive outcomes and to a fat lesser extent the negative outcomes. Good luck!