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No, again, getting things wrong is not the same as lying, and they do not warrant the same degradation in trust.

baryphonic 2y ago
If people were avoiding FOIA by having candid discussions on private servers and deliberately misspelling words all while telling the public a contradictory story, that is strong evidence of lying. If the private communications matched the public ones and there were no efforts to obfuscate, then the best conclusion would be they just called it wrong.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  I agree hiding from FOIA looks bad, degrades trust in general, and the responsible parties should be punished, but it is definitely not dispositive of lying. I didn't see any emails where they were showing agreement with a different set of facts than what they were communicating to the public? Open to seeing sources behind that claim though.
  - tbrownaw 2y ago
    It doesn't prove (but, uh, is rather strongly suggestive) that their earlier statements were lies or contradicted by the records they're hiding, but it is itself a lie.
xanthor 2y ago
What if they're lying about getting things wrong versus lying?
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  That’s bad but not an interpretation one should jump to in a context where it was very easy to get things wrong and rather little incentive to lie. You think CDC et al didn’t know they had limited public credibility with which they could guide public behavior? These people live and breathe questions of institutional credibility all day every day. They obviously know their careers are put at risk even by being wrong never mind by lying.
wsc981 2y ago
The whole "horse dewormer" bullshit propagated by MSM was clearly a lie (in so far that this medicine has been used for decades by humans). So, you can't even trust MSM to not be a 'supersharer' of misinformation. Same is true for Hunter Biden's laptop story. Many more examples could be found.
- mc32 2y ago
  Heck you even have Chris Cuomo coming out against many of the things he said and agreeing with some things he disagreed with regarding COVID.

If people were avoiding FOIA by having candid discussions on private servers and deliberately misspelling words all while telling the public a contradictory story, that is strong evidence of lying. If the private communications matched the public ones and there were no efforts to obfuscate, then the best conclusion would be they just called it wrong.

deleted 2y ago
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llamaimperative 2y ago
I agree hiding from FOIA looks bad, degrades trust in general, and the responsible parties should be punished, but it is definitely not dispositive of lying. I didn't see any emails where they were showing agreement with a different set of facts than what they were communicating to the public? Open to seeing sources behind that claim though.
- tbrownaw 2y ago
  It doesn't prove (but, uh, is rather strongly suggestive) that their earlier statements were lies or contradicted by the records they're hiding, but it is itself a lie.

xanthor 2y ago

What if they're lying about getting things wrong versus lying?

llamaimperative 2y ago
That’s bad but not an interpretation one should jump to in a context where it was very easy to get things wrong and rather little incentive to lie. You think CDC et al didn’t know they had limited public credibility with which they could guide public behavior? These people live and breathe questions of institutional credibility all day every day. They obviously know their careers are put at risk even by being wrong never mind by lying.

wsc981 2y ago

The whole "horse dewormer" bullshit propagated by MSM was clearly a lie (in so far that this medicine has been used for decades by humans). So, you can't even trust MSM to not be a 'supersharer' of misinformation. Same is true for Hunter Biden's laptop story. Many more examples could be found.

mc32 2y ago
Heck you even have Chris Cuomo coming out against many of the things he said and agreeing with some things he disagreed with regarding COVID.