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Good. Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive. From what I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first

Good. Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive. From what I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first experience with EUVs, which is unfortunate because an EUV RAV4 would have been my perfect car.

alephnerd 2y ago
I've driven a bz4x. It's actually not that bad. It's a decent city car and drives and feels like any other Toyota. The financing is really competitive too (100-200/mo lease) and the underlying platform was co-developed with BYD. I'd have considered it if it was eligible for federal tax credits, which it won't be for at least a year. A lot of the bz4x hate seems to come from a subset of Redditor EV enthusiasts who treat their brand of EV as if it's a defining identity, instead of as a tool to take you from point A to point B. > Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive Toyota (like other Japanese companies) is dependent on Japanese government largesse, and METI has stated that Hydrogen Fuel Cell research and Solid State Battery research are Japan's priorities from a energy independence standpoint (they don't own the underlying IP for Li-ion batteries and the entire lithium processing supply chain is still in China, and the SSBs Toyota and Idemetsu are researching use significantly less lithium). This is reflected in Toyota's research priorities as well, but it looks like they've made some massive breakthroughs in sulfide SSBs that are in the process of being rolled out globally [0][1] (the expanded Toyota battery factory in the North Carolina will be building this battery). [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-roll-out-solid-state-battery-evs-couple-years-india-executive-says-2024-01-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/toyota-idemitsu-team-up-to-mass-produce-solid-state-batteries?embedded-checkout=true https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/toyota-id...
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  The financing is likely really good due to regulations that Toyota has consistently fought against, so that's not really a plus. Good lease deals on compliance cars has been a thing for a while now.
kjreact 2y ago
> I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first experience with EUVs Why would one of the largest car companies in the world purposely create an inferior product when their competitors are already making successful EUVs? That would just make them look incompetent. More likely that old companies have a harder time changing their core competencies?
- elsonrodriguez 2y ago
  Electric motors and battery tech are definitely core competencies for Toyota.
- ein0p 2y ago
  Resource curse: it’s profitable for them to do hybrids and ICEs, so they are unable to do anything else well. Sort of like Google Ads vs everything else Google does. It’s not like they couldn’t do it. It’s that the amounts of money are so vastly different that they don’t wanna.
rayiner 2y ago
So I’m about to go lease a bz4x today, and I find the EV community’s hatred of the car irrational. It’s a very well put together car that’s behind the curve on range and charging, which isn’t surprising from a company that’s focused on hybrids over pure EVs. No need for a conspiracy theory. Like—why couldn’t Toyota get 300 miles of range and proper fast charging to work? Well, why can’t Tesla put together a suspension that isn’t brutal and an interior that doesn’t fall apart? The companies obviously have different strengths. In our case we’re looking for a secondary commuter car, so range and charging don’t matter. We were about to pull the trigger on a Model Y, but I worry about my wife’s safety in a car where software updates change key features such as how the cruise control functions with little notice.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  Hyundai/Kia?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Also a good choice. But I’m too brown to drive a Korean car. My mom would not approve!
    - solardev 2y ago
      But Japanese cars are ok?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - NetToolKit 2y ago
      I know you're being funny, but I don't understand the joke: why does brown culture avoid Korean cars?
      - rayiner 2y ago
        Prestige consciousness.
39896880 2y ago
The RAV4 EV exists! It’s also behind the curve but it’s a fun little car. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
okdood64 2y ago
From a US perspective: It's incredible how the historically undisputed best economy carmakers Honda and Toyota missed the boat on relatively affordable EVs, and how well Hyundai and Kia are killing it.

alephnerd 2y ago

I've driven a bz4x. It's actually not that bad. It's a decent city car and drives and feels like any other Toyota. The financing is really competitive too (100-200/mo lease) and the underlying platform was co-developed with BYD. I'd have considered it if it was eligible for federal tax credits, which it won't be for at least a year. A lot of the bz4x hate seems to come from a subset of Redditor EV enthusiasts who treat their brand of EV as if it's a defining identity, instead of as a tool to take you from point A to point B. > Toyota needs to get off their haunches and release something actually competitive Toyota (like other Japanese companies) is dependent on Japanese government largesse, and METI has stated that Hydrogen Fuel Cell research and Solid State Battery research are Japan's priorities from a energy independence standpoint (they don't own the underlying IP for Li-ion batteries and the entire lithium processing supply chain is still in China, and the SSBs Toyota and Idemetsu are researching use significantly less lithium). This is reflected in Toyota's research priorities as well, but it looks like they've made some massive breakthroughs in sulfide SSBs that are in the process of being rolled out globally [0][1] (the expanded Toyota battery factory in the North Carolina will be building this battery). [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-roll-out-solid-state-battery-evs-couple-years-india-executive-says-2024-01-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/toyota-idemitsu-team-up-to-mass-produce-solid-state-batteries?embedded-checkout=true https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-12/toyota-id...

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
The financing is likely really good due to regulations that Toyota has consistently fought against, so that's not really a plus. Good lease deals on compliance cars has been a thing for a while now.

kjreact 2y ago

> I've read the bZ4X is mostly about giving people a bad first experience with EUVs Why would one of the largest car companies in the world purposely create an inferior product when their competitors are already making successful EUVs? That would just make them look incompetent. More likely that old companies have a harder time changing their core competencies?

elsonrodriguez 2y ago
Electric motors and battery tech are definitely core competencies for Toyota.
ein0p 2y ago
Resource curse: it’s profitable for them to do hybrids and ICEs, so they are unable to do anything else well. Sort of like Google Ads vs everything else Google does. It’s not like they couldn’t do it. It’s that the amounts of money are so vastly different that they don’t wanna.

rayiner 2y ago

So I’m about to go lease a bz4x today, and I find the EV community’s hatred of the car irrational. It’s a very well put together car that’s behind the curve on range and charging, which isn’t surprising from a company that’s focused on hybrids over pure EVs. No need for a conspiracy theory. Like—why couldn’t Toyota get 300 miles of range and proper fast charging to work? Well, why can’t Tesla put together a suspension that isn’t brutal and an interior that doesn’t fall apart? The companies obviously have different strengths. In our case we’re looking for a secondary commuter car, so range and charging don’t matter. We were about to pull the trigger on a Model Y, but I worry about my wife’s safety in a car where software updates change key features such as how the cruise control functions with little notice.

Workaccount2 2y ago
Hyundai/Kia?
- rayiner 2y ago
  Also a good choice. But I’m too brown to drive a Korean car. My mom would not approve!
  - solardev 2y ago
    But Japanese cars are ok?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - NetToolKit 2y ago
    I know you're being funny, but I don't understand the joke: why does brown culture avoid Korean cars?
    - rayiner 2y ago
      Prestige consciousness.

39896880 2y ago

The RAV4 EV exists! It’s also behind the curve but it’s a fun little car. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

okdood64 2y ago

From a US perspective: It's incredible how the historically undisputed best economy carmakers Honda and Toyota missed the boat on relatively affordable EVs, and how well Hyundai and Kia are killing it.