3 ms·

what I said in another comment: as long as you cant buy a PC with Linux pre-installed easily this will remain a small minority OS.

kjkjadksj 2y ago
A lot of linux laptops available now from dell, lenovo, etc.
- jrepinc 2y ago
  Also Slimbook, Tuxedo, System 67 and many more. Hardly any excuse these days, And also agree it is so simple an quick to do the installations that it is not such a problem anymore.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    nobody knows these brands apart from Linux users. > agree it is so simple an quick to do the installations that it is not such a problem anymore. I wonder if people here are sometimes exposed to non technical users. You would be very surprised.
    - jrepinc 2y ago
      Well it is not exactly nobody. I know a few people who were not GNU/Linux users and bought laptops from them, But yeah you have to do some research for informed buying, it is a must for anything otherwise if you only buy known brands you are just a fool anyways. But yeah more people should know about this and make informed purchases. As for installation, my sister is a graphic designer and installed KDE Neon completely on her own about half a year ago. Also one of my friends before that did the same with Kubuntu. And they are far from technical people, especially when it comes to computers. I think the biggest problem are our crappy educational systems which are these days basically Microsoft propaganda and training centers. They should all be teaching free and opensource only and not do free marketing for Big Tech which are nowadays increasingly just spyware/adware corporations. but these days they hardly even mention anyone else and thus just produce mindless uninformed consumers. But yeah I know this is a big problem to solve but a must to solve or else it will get increasing bad for society. And that is why we must also act politically and join political parties and push fort these fixes and improvements in educational and governmental policies to demand the software and hardware that respects users freedoms, privacy and other digital rights. And only this way informed and aware people will also demand people respecting product when buying and more brands that not many know will become known and the better known will be asked more to offer GNU/Linux-preinstalled computers.
talldayo 2y ago
> Linux pre-installed easily At this point I'm fairly sure setting up the average Linux distro takes less time than the first-party Windows and MacOS welcome wizards.
- pennomi 2y ago
  Less time, more skill.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Suppose I should start certifying people capable of pressing F12 on boot.
  - skeledrew 2y ago
    I literally just a few minutes ago setup Linux (Kubuntu 24.04) on a new laptop (Framework). It was insert USB drive, press power button, select the drive to boot, wait a few seconds for live OS, run the "Install Now" app on the desktop, hit "Next" a few times, wait about 5 minutes for the install to complete, and restart and remove the disk. Can't get much simpler to setup a fresh system.
    - joshspankit 2y ago
      Before someone argues that “this requires enough background technical knowledge to know which buttons to press to make it easy” there is a point there, but distro maintainers have had that point in front of them for decades. There’s now only one prerequisite for new users: the willingness to format the hard drive. Everything else is trivial and for 9/10 distros the screens are welcoming, clear, refined, and non-technical.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  nobody needs to install windows when they get a PC these days
  - lambdanil 2y ago
dangus 2y ago
Steam Deck?
- ekianjo 2y ago
  most people dont buy a Steam Deck to use it as a computer.
  - dangus 2y ago
    Gaming is something you do on computers. How many Windows users only have their Windows system to play games? I bet that number is significant. If we similarly gatekeep drawing tablets like iPads and say that they aren’t really doing computing and one day in the future an artist’s tablet that runs Linux becomes commercially successful, the end result would be that more users buying “computers” are on Linux.
    - philistine 2y ago
      I agree with you in principle, since a computer’s a computer, but the Steam Deck is so different and specifically made for gaming that it’s really hard to count it amongst the Linux fold. We don’t count the Switch owners as computer users of BSD after all. And if you’re trying to make Linux into this paragon against the AI invasion, a portable console connected to the largest gaming store in the world is not a winning move. With how fickle Valve is, they’ll go all in on AI any day now.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        So, evidently you have not used a Steam Deck or appear to be in abject denial of what it is. > the Steam Deck is so different and specifically made for gaming that it’s really hard to count it amongst the Linux fold. That's funny, it has a KDE desktop and a graphical installer for Linux packages. It looks no different from my Linux desktop at home. > We don’t count the Switch owners as computer users of BSD after all. You very well could: https://switchroot.org/ https://switchroot.org/ The default Switch OS is more importantly based on Android though. > a portable console connected to the largest gaming store in the world is not a winning move. You're damn right. That's why Valve specifically designed the Steam Deck so it's not connected to them for essential services. You can install Windows on it, put another Linux distro over the base install, or dual boot with whatever ungodly combination you prefer. I don't know who led you onto this, but using Valve-provided software is entirely optional for Steam Deck owners. > With how fickle Valve is, they’ll go all in on AI any day now. Evidently you don't use Steam very much, either. Steam, the app, hasn't received a serious "new feature" since they spruced up the in-game chat app during the pandemic. I am about as worried of Valve going all-in on AI as I am worried of Joe Biden adopting serious socialist reform into his policy. It's not going to happen, Jack.
Zefiroj 2y ago
You can. They're called chromebooks.
- weikju 2y ago
  that won't be an escape from the ad/ai slop though

kjkjadksj 2y ago

A lot of linux laptops available now from dell, lenovo, etc.

jrepinc 2y ago
Also Slimbook, Tuxedo, System 67 and many more. Hardly any excuse these days, And also agree it is so simple an quick to do the installations that it is not such a problem anymore.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  nobody knows these brands apart from Linux users. > agree it is so simple an quick to do the installations that it is not such a problem anymore. I wonder if people here are sometimes exposed to non technical users. You would be very surprised.
  - jrepinc 2y ago
    Well it is not exactly nobody. I know a few people who were not GNU/Linux users and bought laptops from them, But yeah you have to do some research for informed buying, it is a must for anything otherwise if you only buy known brands you are just a fool anyways. But yeah more people should know about this and make informed purchases. As for installation, my sister is a graphic designer and installed KDE Neon completely on her own about half a year ago. Also one of my friends before that did the same with Kubuntu. And they are far from technical people, especially when it comes to computers. I think the biggest problem are our crappy educational systems which are these days basically Microsoft propaganda and training centers. They should all be teaching free and opensource only and not do free marketing for Big Tech which are nowadays increasingly just spyware/adware corporations. but these days they hardly even mention anyone else and thus just produce mindless uninformed consumers. But yeah I know this is a big problem to solve but a must to solve or else it will get increasing bad for society. And that is why we must also act politically and join political parties and push fort these fixes and improvements in educational and governmental policies to demand the software and hardware that respects users freedoms, privacy and other digital rights. And only this way informed and aware people will also demand people respecting product when buying and more brands that not many know will become known and the better known will be asked more to offer GNU/Linux-preinstalled computers.

talldayo 2y ago

> Linux pre-installed easily At this point I'm fairly sure setting up the average Linux distro takes less time than the first-party Windows and MacOS welcome wizards.

pennomi 2y ago
Less time, more skill.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Suppose I should start certifying people capable of pressing F12 on boot.
- skeledrew 2y ago
  I literally just a few minutes ago setup Linux (Kubuntu 24.04) on a new laptop (Framework). It was insert USB drive, press power button, select the drive to boot, wait a few seconds for live OS, run the "Install Now" app on the desktop, hit "Next" a few times, wait about 5 minutes for the install to complete, and restart and remove the disk. Can't get much simpler to setup a fresh system.
  - joshspankit 2y ago
    Before someone argues that “this requires enough background technical knowledge to know which buttons to press to make it easy” there is a point there, but distro maintainers have had that point in front of them for decades. There’s now only one prerequisite for new users: the willingness to format the hard drive. Everything else is trivial and for 9/10 distros the screens are welcoming, clear, refined, and non-technical.
ekianjo 2y ago
nobody needs to install windows when they get a PC these days
- lambdanil 2y ago

dangus 2y ago

Steam Deck?

ekianjo 2y ago
most people dont buy a Steam Deck to use it as a computer.
- dangus 2y ago
  Gaming is something you do on computers. How many Windows users only have their Windows system to play games? I bet that number is significant. If we similarly gatekeep drawing tablets like iPads and say that they aren’t really doing computing and one day in the future an artist’s tablet that runs Linux becomes commercially successful, the end result would be that more users buying “computers” are on Linux.
  - philistine 2y ago
    I agree with you in principle, since a computer’s a computer, but the Steam Deck is so different and specifically made for gaming that it’s really hard to count it amongst the Linux fold. We don’t count the Switch owners as computer users of BSD after all. And if you’re trying to make Linux into this paragon against the AI invasion, a portable console connected to the largest gaming store in the world is not a winning move. With how fickle Valve is, they’ll go all in on AI any day now.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      So, evidently you have not used a Steam Deck or appear to be in abject denial of what it is. > the Steam Deck is so different and specifically made for gaming that it’s really hard to count it amongst the Linux fold. That's funny, it has a KDE desktop and a graphical installer for Linux packages. It looks no different from my Linux desktop at home. > We don’t count the Switch owners as computer users of BSD after all. You very well could: https://switchroot.org/ https://switchroot.org/ The default Switch OS is more importantly based on Android though. > a portable console connected to the largest gaming store in the world is not a winning move. You're damn right. That's why Valve specifically designed the Steam Deck so it's not connected to them for essential services. You can install Windows on it, put another Linux distro over the base install, or dual boot with whatever ungodly combination you prefer. I don't know who led you onto this, but using Valve-provided software is entirely optional for Steam Deck owners. > With how fickle Valve is, they’ll go all in on AI any day now. Evidently you don't use Steam very much, either. Steam, the app, hasn't received a serious "new feature" since they spruced up the in-game chat app during the pandemic. I am about as worried of Valve going all-in on AI as I am worried of Joe Biden adopting serious socialist reform into his policy. It's not going to happen, Jack.

Zefiroj 2y ago

You can. They're called chromebooks.

weikju 2y ago
that won't be an escape from the ad/ai slop though