3 ms·

I don't think it's reasonable to assume all EU governments (or even all Polish governments) will act the same as PiS do/did.

Etherlord87 2y ago
AFAIK all uses of Pegasus were conducted after an agreement (a warrant) was issued from Polish courts - which were in opposition to the PiS government. If I'm right about this, doesn't it mean this particular affair unnecessarily demonizes PiS? Either way, I think it's very reasonable to *do* assume the worst of governments - as in we should strive to design the system to be able to withstand as much malice from people in power as possible.
- eigenket 2y ago
  I don't think it's accurate to say the courts were in opposition to the PS government. PiS appointed lots of their own judges in their years in power who often decided along lines that PiS wanted. The biggest example of course being the Constitutional Tribunal. Sure there were judges who opposed PiS, but there were plenty who did not. This guy, who is now in Belarus, is an example of one of PiS's pet judges https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/06/polish-judge-flees-to-belarus-seeking-asylum/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/06/polish-judge-flees-to...
  - Etherlord87 2y ago
    Sure, but - again AFAIK - the judges issuing the warrants weren't the judges appointed by PiS.
    - eigenket 2y ago
      I have seen no evidence either way on that.
betaby 2y ago
I think it is in fact reasonable. Private persons are unlikely to have means/connections to acquire Pegasus while victims are all around EU, see another link below. https://www.dw.com/en/spain-court-reopens-investigation-in-pegasus-spying-scandal/a-68901546 https://www.dw.com/en/spain-court-reopens-investigation-in-p...
- eigenket 2y ago
  There are not many examples of the government hacking opposition politicians an en leaking damaging material to friendly "news" agencies for political gain https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/18/polish-state-tv-ordered-to-apologise-over-publishing-messages-of-politician-hacked-with-pegasus-spyware/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/18/polish-state-tv-order... Law and justice are a particularly extreme example.
  - peterfirefly 2y ago
    Didn't Merkel have the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz spy on her political opposition?
    - eigenket 2y ago
      I haven't seen anything about that, but if she did then thats disapointing

Etherlord87 2y ago

AFAIK all uses of Pegasus were conducted after an agreement (a warrant) was issued from Polish courts - which were in opposition to the PiS government. If I'm right about this, doesn't it mean this particular affair unnecessarily demonizes PiS? Either way, I think it's very reasonable to *do* assume the worst of governments - as in we should strive to design the system to be able to withstand as much malice from people in power as possible.

eigenket 2y ago
I don't think it's accurate to say the courts were in opposition to the PS government. PiS appointed lots of their own judges in their years in power who often decided along lines that PiS wanted. The biggest example of course being the Constitutional Tribunal. Sure there were judges who opposed PiS, but there were plenty who did not. This guy, who is now in Belarus, is an example of one of PiS's pet judges https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/06/polish-judge-flees-to-belarus-seeking-asylum/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/06/polish-judge-flees-to...
- Etherlord87 2y ago
  Sure, but - again AFAIK - the judges issuing the warrants weren't the judges appointed by PiS.
  - eigenket 2y ago
    I have seen no evidence either way on that.

betaby 2y ago

I think it is in fact reasonable. Private persons are unlikely to have means/connections to acquire Pegasus while victims are all around EU, see another link below. https://www.dw.com/en/spain-court-reopens-investigation-in-pegasus-spying-scandal/a-68901546 https://www.dw.com/en/spain-court-reopens-investigation-in-p...

eigenket 2y ago
There are not many examples of the government hacking opposition politicians an en leaking damaging material to friendly "news" agencies for political gain https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/18/polish-state-tv-ordered-to-apologise-over-publishing-messages-of-politician-hacked-with-pegasus-spyware/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/18/polish-state-tv-order... Law and justice are a particularly extreme example.
- peterfirefly 2y ago
  Didn't Merkel have the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz spy on her political opposition?
  - eigenket 2y ago
    I haven't seen anything about that, but if she did then thats disapointing