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It's SUCH a win that they managed to roll this out to a small set of tax situations and states to start. Every government project I've been on has required crea

It's SUCH a win that they managed to roll this out to a small set of tax situations and states to start. Every government project I've been on has required creativity in defining an MVP that doesn't include shipping to everyone. This was cited consistently as one of the great successes of this project, they were able to ship something that successfully filed 150k taxes b/c they were able to scope things down to something doable in 9 months.

ksec 2y ago
It gives me hope and positive energy that no matter how bad governments ( all around the world ) and especially US given how something so simple is still missing and so broken, manage to move forward. I would imagine the hard part isn't even the MVP or defining MVP phase, but to get it started in the first place. The amount of politics involves. And that is speaking as something who used to work inside government.
dheera 2y ago
sigh this is a baby step but - Many if not most software engineers in California earn more than the $200K household limitation for using Direct File - From my understanding there is no way auto-generate my state tax return from Direct File so I would have to do all the work twice even if I can use it - Complicating my tax situation (legally) allows me to save more money, I would save far more than the price of TurboTax by using TurboTax instead of Direct File, as much as I hate it
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fragmede 2y ago
  > Many if not most software engineers in California have complicated taxes, due to how they're making that much money. I don't have a problem with them optimizing for the simpler case (eg the intention behind the 1040EZ) while software engineers, who can afford a CPA to deal with optimizing their tax burden off non W2 income, aren't initially able to use it.
- ilyagr 2y ago
  In practice, for software engineers in CA, I'm guessing that https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ will be superior to Direct File for a while. It also files federal taxes for free with no limits AFAIK. In terms of societal and long-term impact of eliminating the middlemen, Direct File has much more potential. Hopefully, in a few years, states will integrate their tax systems with Direct File. Perhaps one day the government will finally send us a completed tax return as opposed to the other way around.
- avgDev 2y ago
  This comment is why people hate tech bros.
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  You must be quite devastated that you have to take a few of those 200k dollars and hire a CPA. Try not to sigh so hard you run out of breath.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  This comment, specifically, makes me hate this website. I don’t specifically care about “engineers in California”. Tech bros deserve all the hate they get.
- gamblor956 2y ago
  DirectFile was created by the IRS, a federal agency, for preparing your federal income tax return, in a manner similar to the streamlined e-file options available in other countries (i.e., for the most common/basic situations). There are 50 states, and every single one of them has their own idea of what an income tax return should look like, so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain. The US also has significantly more tax planning/tax structuring opportunities than do other countries, and DirectFile doesn't even try to handle those...but neither do its foreign counterparts. If you have a more complicated tax situation, like most software engineers do, than DirectFile isn't for you, and never was intended for your use case.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    > so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain. The way to extend this, if the federal government wanted to push it, would be to define a standard export format from IRS DirectFile, containing all the information in it... ... then make some federal money contingent on states implementing a filing system with an import function (for the shared data). Nice clean interface, and still states' choices on if they want to support.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    > so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain Or just contract one of the companies that already do it with a public-private partnership. HR Block or whatever gets paid say 2x their current tax prep revenue in exchange for being the white-label direct-file available for free to everyone. Like these tax prep companies are crazy cheap for just being able to hit import next next next next next submit and never think about taxes ever. The work is already done, why duplicate it?
    - dessimus 2y ago
      >Or just contract one of the companies that already do it with a public-private partnership. The IRS tried that already and the 3rd parties just used dark patterns that tricked customers into paying for unnecessary services.
- dmd 2y ago
  94% of Americans make less than $200k a year. Not everything is meant for "software engineers in California".
  - 8note 2y ago
    I don't get why there's an income cap though. There's nothing that gets more complicated on income alone, only if you add extra stuff to track
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Anybody who makes more than about $200K-$300K/year is likely making a mistake if they don't have a CPA.
      - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
        What makes you say that? I'm assuming you're adding other assumptions. My wife and I combined make about $300K/year. We don't run a business, don't make charity contributions, only pay ~$5K in mortgage interest, and don't have kids. We don't even do retail stock investing (EDIT: And I haven't exercised any employer stock options), just a 401k, an IRA, and a 5.25% savings account. We take the standard deduction. I can't imagine a CPA would be able to find so many possible deductions that it would be worth itemizing.
        brianwawok 2y ago
        Yup totally silly. My CPA wouldn’t even take you on as a client, he would say go to HR block if you don’t want to do it,
        FireBeyond 2y ago
        Which is also silly. My experiences with HR Block was that they basically had their own version of a TurboTax-like thing, and all they were doing was literally asking you for the numbers for each question. There was zero critical thinking applied. I had just bought a house, just bought a hybrid, started working from home, and was new to the US. "What are you claiming?" "What can I claim from this?" "I'm not sure. But I can put these numbers in here and see what it says." You're literally paying for someone to type in the same numbers you would, with as much (or at times less) knowledge than you (who is also less invested than you in getting it right, but much more invested in selling their 'audit protection' stuff).
- macrael 2y ago
  Yes? That was the point of my comment? If they had tried to support everyone's tax situation on day one they likely would have failed, but instead they shipped something that works, got made permanent, and now we all get to look forward to using this tool sometime in the next few years as it graduates from MVP to entrenched software
- whymauri 2y ago
  I'm confused, I used (what I thought was) DirectFile for Massachusetts via MassTaxConnect (totally free). I make more than that threshold. Did I do something wrong? Edit: I understand now. DirectFile is for Federal and MassTax is for State taxes.
- tombert 2y ago
  I mean, I don't dispute anything that you said, but a baby step is still a step. As they onboard more people onto the platform, they're be able to suss out bugs and fix issues and be able to raise income thresholds and maybe start handling state returns as well.

ksec 2y ago

It gives me hope and positive energy that no matter how bad governments ( all around the world ) and especially US given how something so simple is still missing and so broken, manage to move forward. I would imagine the hard part isn't even the MVP or defining MVP phase, but to get it started in the first place. The amount of politics involves. And that is speaking as something who used to work inside government.

dheera 2y ago

sigh this is a baby step but - Many if not most software engineers in California earn more than the $200K household limitation for using Direct File - From my understanding there is no way auto-generate my state tax return from Direct File so I would have to do all the work twice even if I can use it - Complicating my tax situation (legally) allows me to save more money, I would save far more than the price of TurboTax by using TurboTax instead of Direct File, as much as I hate it

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fragmede 2y ago
> Many if not most software engineers in California have complicated taxes, due to how they're making that much money. I don't have a problem with them optimizing for the simpler case (eg the intention behind the 1040EZ) while software engineers, who can afford a CPA to deal with optimizing their tax burden off non W2 income, aren't initially able to use it.
ilyagr 2y ago
In practice, for software engineers in CA, I'm guessing that https://www.freetaxusa.com/ https://www.freetaxusa.com/ will be superior to Direct File for a while. It also files federal taxes for free with no limits AFAIK. In terms of societal and long-term impact of eliminating the middlemen, Direct File has much more potential. Hopefully, in a few years, states will integrate their tax systems with Direct File. Perhaps one day the government will finally send us a completed tax return as opposed to the other way around.
avgDev 2y ago
This comment is why people hate tech bros.
idiotsecant 2y ago
You must be quite devastated that you have to take a few of those 200k dollars and hire a CPA. Try not to sigh so hard you run out of breath.
cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
This comment, specifically, makes me hate this website. I don’t specifically care about “engineers in California”. Tech bros deserve all the hate they get.
gamblor956 2y ago
DirectFile was created by the IRS, a federal agency, for preparing your federal income tax return, in a manner similar to the streamlined e-file options available in other countries (i.e., for the most common/basic situations). There are 50 states, and every single one of them has their own idea of what an income tax return should look like, so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain. The US also has significantly more tax planning/tax structuring opportunities than do other countries, and DirectFile doesn't even try to handle those...but neither do its foreign counterparts. If you have a more complicated tax situation, like most software engineers do, than DirectFile isn't for you, and never was intended for your use case.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain. The way to extend this, if the federal government wanted to push it, would be to define a standard export format from IRS DirectFile, containing all the information in it... ... then make some federal money contingent on states implementing a filing system with an import function (for the shared data). Nice clean interface, and still states' choices on if they want to support.
- Spivak 2y ago
  > so a direct file that handled state returns would take several years and hundreds of staff to develop and maintain Or just contract one of the companies that already do it with a public-private partnership. HR Block or whatever gets paid say 2x their current tax prep revenue in exchange for being the white-label direct-file available for free to everyone. Like these tax prep companies are crazy cheap for just being able to hit import next next next next next submit and never think about taxes ever. The work is already done, why duplicate it?
  - dessimus 2y ago
    >Or just contract one of the companies that already do it with a public-private partnership. The IRS tried that already and the 3rd parties just used dark patterns that tricked customers into paying for unnecessary services.
dmd 2y ago
94% of Americans make less than $200k a year. Not everything is meant for "software engineers in California".
- 8note 2y ago
  I don't get why there's an income cap though. There's nothing that gets more complicated on income alone, only if you add extra stuff to track
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    Anybody who makes more than about $200K-$300K/year is likely making a mistake if they don't have a CPA.
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      What makes you say that? I'm assuming you're adding other assumptions. My wife and I combined make about $300K/year. We don't run a business, don't make charity contributions, only pay ~$5K in mortgage interest, and don't have kids. We don't even do retail stock investing (EDIT: And I haven't exercised any employer stock options), just a 401k, an IRA, and a 5.25% savings account. We take the standard deduction. I can't imagine a CPA would be able to find so many possible deductions that it would be worth itemizing.
      - brianwawok 2y ago
        Yup totally silly. My CPA wouldn’t even take you on as a client, he would say go to HR block if you don’t want to do it,
        FireBeyond 2y ago
        Which is also silly. My experiences with HR Block was that they basically had their own version of a TurboTax-like thing, and all they were doing was literally asking you for the numbers for each question. There was zero critical thinking applied. I had just bought a house, just bought a hybrid, started working from home, and was new to the US. "What are you claiming?" "What can I claim from this?" "I'm not sure. But I can put these numbers in here and see what it says." You're literally paying for someone to type in the same numbers you would, with as much (or at times less) knowledge than you (who is also less invested than you in getting it right, but much more invested in selling their 'audit protection' stuff).
macrael 2y ago
Yes? That was the point of my comment? If they had tried to support everyone's tax situation on day one they likely would have failed, but instead they shipped something that works, got made permanent, and now we all get to look forward to using this tool sometime in the next few years as it graduates from MVP to entrenched software
whymauri 2y ago
I'm confused, I used (what I thought was) DirectFile for Massachusetts via MassTaxConnect (totally free). I make more than that threshold. Did I do something wrong? Edit: I understand now. DirectFile is for Federal and MassTax is for State taxes.
tombert 2y ago
I mean, I don't dispute anything that you said, but a baby step is still a step. As they onboard more people onto the platform, they're be able to suss out bugs and fix issues and be able to raise income thresholds and maybe start handling state returns as well.