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Convince me otherwise: I don't travel because I see it as the pinnacle of vapid consumerist excess. People who regale me with tales of their travels will recou

Convince me otherwise: I don't travel because I see it as the pinnacle of vapid consumerist excess. People who regale me with tales of their travels will recount the great food, the nice people, the architecture, the views. You burned all that fuel, money, and time to travel halfway around the world just to eat someone else's food and shit in someone else's toilet? To walk someone else's streets? Why? If you think this experience has enhanced your worldview, I think you're a fool who was marketed to. I think travel has been productized and hawked to you as a "world-view enhancing" high-status marker by the tourism industry. The higher status attributed to "one who has toured" is particularly abhorrent. Oh, sorry, I'm just stupider with a meeker worldview because I didn't go hiking in the Alps or eat authentic Italian food or something. It's unwarranted elitism. I think it's a superficial outlet for consumerism and a misguided attempt to attain some ostensible "worldliness" status. My ideal is to dwell in and steward for my own village. Why do I need to go around visiting other people's villages? Here's an ideal, from the Tao Te Ching, chapter 80: Let the country be small, And the inhabitants few. Although there are weapons For tens and hundreds of soldiers, They will not be used. Let people take death seriously, And not travel far. Although they have boats and carriages, There's no occasion to use them. Although they have armor and weapons, There's no occasion to wear them. Let people return to making knots on ropes, Instead of writing. Their food will be tasty. Their clothes will be comfortable. Their homes will be tranquil. They will rejoice in their daily life. They can see their neighbors. Roosters and dogs can be heard from there. Still, they will age and die Without visiting one another.

beej71 2y ago
I don't have a big house or fancy car. I don't dine in fancy restaurants or stay in fancy hotels; sometimes I sleep on the ground. I never pay for more than coach. But I do need to go places and see things. Sometimes that's out in the forest or the mountains or the coast. Sometimes it's local. Sometimes it's very distant. The world! The people! It is amazing! I stand agape at the scope of it all. I'm sorry I will not be able to experience every single bit of it. But that's just me. I don't intend or expect you to be convinced it is right for you. Likewise, you can't tell me what has or has not enhanced my world view. :)
lewispollard 2y ago
You say you don't travel, but have you travelled before? Have you attempted to answer your own question experientially, rather than rely on rhetoric? Because you could make the same arguments for basically any activity: would you reduce playing a sport or learning a craft as mere marketing by their respective industries, and make judgements on them based on philosophy, rather than just try out playing the sport or doing the craft for a while to see for yourself what it's like? Philosophy only goes so far, it's practice that allows you to become embodied in the activity and gain insight.
- VoodooJuJu 2y ago
  I've never traveled far, but I would imagine the most remarkable thing about it is that it's simply good fun, like sports. I just don't buy the notion that one's worldview is necessarily constrained without physically touring different places around the world.
  - lewispollard 2y ago
    If you go deeply enough into a sport or craft, it will also change your worldview profoundly, you will look at things in different ways, due to both the activity itself, your relationship to the activity in both mind and body, and also the people you meet and places you go due to the activity. Same goes for travel - you can travel far, and never expand your worldview - the average person in my country (UK) frequently holiday in Spain, but stick to British-centred resort packages where they never stray from the hotel complex and eat British food and drink British lager. I wouldn't say that's worldview-expanding travel. But that's like engaging with a craft at a hobby level, you're (probably) not gonna get your mind blown occasionally doodling a stick man with a pencil either. But ultimately the point I wanted to make is that if you've never done the thing you're making assumptions on, that people who have done the thing say has a certain effect, you denying that effect is exactly what you said: your imagination.
EdTechAndrew 2y ago
I think you are right. Depth of experience has always seemed more rewarding than breadth of experience. I think there is value to vacation and travel for relaxation purposes. But you are definitely right that "world-view enhancing" is travel industry propaganda. Maybe if you live somewhere for a year and integrate with the culture there is something to be gained. But a week in Italy is just for fun, I think it's silly when people claim otherwise. Building a community and established roots seems much more meaningful than travelling to many different places, at least to me.
- lores 2y ago
  There is a lot of value in experiencing other cultures, especially away from tourists. If nothing else, it's easy to say "bomb Sanaa" because Houthis attacked a US ship, but a lot harder once you've been waiting for a while on the side of a Yemeni road and locals brought you food and tea because you must have been hot and hungry.
- antisthenes 2y ago
  I would rather live in another country for 1 year, than to visit 52 countries for 1 week, I think. If I can make a friend in another country, all the better.
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  I feel like I would miss out more if I wasn't there to experience the daily changes here. I do travel sometimes, but when asked about my dream destination, that's where I am now. We do get so pulled into traveling to other places that we forget to appreciate and explore the one we come from/are in.
more_corn 2y ago
So you haven’t traveled yet think it is vapid and useless. You’re like the child who refuses to take a bite of a new food because you’re certain it will be terrible. I can’t speak for anyone else but when I travel I meet people of different cultures and I appreciate them. I see interesting sights the world has to offer increasing my awe and wonder. The new foods I taste give me an appreciation of different cultures and help me recognize that mine is not the only perspective, the only way, the only right answer. But sure, maybe that’s all vapid consumerist nonsense. I’m sure you would know, small village expert on the state of the world. Actually that’s pretty harsh. I’m sure you have a lovely perspective from your little village. It’s a shame you’ve revoked my invitation and I can’t come learn it from you.
surgical_fire 2y ago
> You burned all that fuel, money, and time to travel halfway around the world just to eat someone else's food and shit in someone else's toilet? To walk someone else's streets? Why? If you think this experience has enhanced your worldview, I think you're a fool who was marketed to We are all fools marketed to in different ways. That said, I don't really remember in much detail things I did in 2016. I remember still in vivid detail the things I experienced in the 3 weeks I spent in Japan. Including, ironically enough, the toilets I shat at.
RetroTechie 2y ago
> You burned all that fuel, money, and time to travel halfway around the world just to eat someone else's food and shit in someone else's toilet? To walk someone else's streets? You're gonna eat anyway. Might as well be stuff you've never tried before in some exotic location. You're gonna shit anyway. Who cares where the toilet used is located? If you get outside at all, why not walk some streets / take a path you've never taken before? So it all comes down to the cost of actually getting there. If not far from home, that cost can be low to zero. If further away: there's expensive destinations / ways to travel, and cheap(er) ones. Going on a single long vacation may be better value than a weekend back-and-forth every year.

beej71 2y ago

I don't have a big house or fancy car. I don't dine in fancy restaurants or stay in fancy hotels; sometimes I sleep on the ground. I never pay for more than coach. But I do need to go places and see things. Sometimes that's out in the forest or the mountains or the coast. Sometimes it's local. Sometimes it's very distant. The world! The people! It is amazing! I stand agape at the scope of it all. I'm sorry I will not be able to experience every single bit of it. But that's just me. I don't intend or expect you to be convinced it is right for you. Likewise, you can't tell me what has or has not enhanced my world view. :)

lewispollard 2y ago

You say you don't travel, but have you travelled before? Have you attempted to answer your own question experientially, rather than rely on rhetoric? Because you could make the same arguments for basically any activity: would you reduce playing a sport or learning a craft as mere marketing by their respective industries, and make judgements on them based on philosophy, rather than just try out playing the sport or doing the craft for a while to see for yourself what it's like? Philosophy only goes so far, it's practice that allows you to become embodied in the activity and gain insight.

VoodooJuJu 2y ago
I've never traveled far, but I would imagine the most remarkable thing about it is that it's simply good fun, like sports. I just don't buy the notion that one's worldview is necessarily constrained without physically touring different places around the world.
- lewispollard 2y ago
  If you go deeply enough into a sport or craft, it will also change your worldview profoundly, you will look at things in different ways, due to both the activity itself, your relationship to the activity in both mind and body, and also the people you meet and places you go due to the activity. Same goes for travel - you can travel far, and never expand your worldview - the average person in my country (UK) frequently holiday in Spain, but stick to British-centred resort packages where they never stray from the hotel complex and eat British food and drink British lager. I wouldn't say that's worldview-expanding travel. But that's like engaging with a craft at a hobby level, you're (probably) not gonna get your mind blown occasionally doodling a stick man with a pencil either. But ultimately the point I wanted to make is that if you've never done the thing you're making assumptions on, that people who have done the thing say has a certain effect, you denying that effect is exactly what you said: your imagination.

EdTechAndrew 2y ago

I think you are right. Depth of experience has always seemed more rewarding than breadth of experience. I think there is value to vacation and travel for relaxation purposes. But you are definitely right that "world-view enhancing" is travel industry propaganda. Maybe if you live somewhere for a year and integrate with the culture there is something to be gained. But a week in Italy is just for fun, I think it's silly when people claim otherwise. Building a community and established roots seems much more meaningful than travelling to many different places, at least to me.

lores 2y ago
There is a lot of value in experiencing other cultures, especially away from tourists. If nothing else, it's easy to say "bomb Sanaa" because Houthis attacked a US ship, but a lot harder once you've been waiting for a while on the side of a Yemeni road and locals brought you food and tea because you must have been hot and hungry.
antisthenes 2y ago
I would rather live in another country for 1 year, than to visit 52 countries for 1 week, I think. If I can make a friend in another country, all the better.
BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
I feel like I would miss out more if I wasn't there to experience the daily changes here. I do travel sometimes, but when asked about my dream destination, that's where I am now. We do get so pulled into traveling to other places that we forget to appreciate and explore the one we come from/are in.

more_corn 2y ago

So you haven’t traveled yet think it is vapid and useless. You’re like the child who refuses to take a bite of a new food because you’re certain it will be terrible. I can’t speak for anyone else but when I travel I meet people of different cultures and I appreciate them. I see interesting sights the world has to offer increasing my awe and wonder. The new foods I taste give me an appreciation of different cultures and help me recognize that mine is not the only perspective, the only way, the only right answer. But sure, maybe that’s all vapid consumerist nonsense. I’m sure you would know, small village expert on the state of the world. Actually that’s pretty harsh. I’m sure you have a lovely perspective from your little village. It’s a shame you’ve revoked my invitation and I can’t come learn it from you.

surgical_fire 2y ago

> You burned all that fuel, money, and time to travel halfway around the world just to eat someone else's food and shit in someone else's toilet? To walk someone else's streets? Why? If you think this experience has enhanced your worldview, I think you're a fool who was marketed to We are all fools marketed to in different ways. That said, I don't really remember in much detail things I did in 2016. I remember still in vivid detail the things I experienced in the 3 weeks I spent in Japan. Including, ironically enough, the toilets I shat at.

RetroTechie 2y ago

> You burned all that fuel, money, and time to travel halfway around the world just to eat someone else's food and shit in someone else's toilet? To walk someone else's streets? You're gonna eat anyway. Might as well be stuff you've never tried before in some exotic location. You're gonna shit anyway. Who cares where the toilet used is located? If you get outside at all, why not walk some streets / take a path you've never taken before? So it all comes down to the cost of actually getting there. If not far from home, that cost can be low to zero. If further away: there's expensive destinations / ways to travel, and cheap(er) ones. Going on a single long vacation may be better value than a weekend back-and-forth every year.