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All those things cost quite a bit of money that most people can't afford. Seems quite out of touch with reality assuming that people don't travel because they

All those things cost quite a bit of money that most people can't afford. Seems quite out of touch with reality assuming that people don't travel because they don't want to.

pydry 2y ago
It's a lot cheaper than you'd probably realize thanks to decades of competition. It's unlike necessities like a roof over your head, education and healthcare. These are all increasingly unaffordable thanks to a war on the working class driven by the financialization of essentials.
- JohnnyMarcone 2y ago
  The flight alone is unaffordable or very expensive for most people in the United States.
  - pydry 2y ago
    If you amortize the cost of the flight across a month or so in a LCOL region it can be cheaper than staying home. Staying at home is also increasingly unaffordable for a lot of people in the United States, of course.
    - danaris 2y ago
      Yes, but most of the cost of staying home is 1) rent/mortgage 2) food And you still have to pay both of those if you're on vacation. Unless you're suggesting that people pack up everything they own, move out of their house, and go on vacation for a month?
      - RetroTechie 2y ago
        There's people that rent out their house a la AirBnB, while out on a month+ stay in a LCOL country. And in some cases come out ahead doing so, while having a vacation. Of course it varies from household to household whether it's practical (or wise) to do this.
        marssaxman 2y ago
        I have previously rented my house out on AirBnB, and it's not a switch you can just flip when you feel like taking a vacation; there is a lot of work you have to do to get your house ready to rent, and you have to establish (or maintain) relationships with people who can handle turnovers and other on-site services. A month would not be long enough that I'd feel like it was worth the hassle.
      - pydry 2y ago
        I know tons of people who worked minimum wage jobs who saved up and packed up and went on vacation for a month somewhere where the basics are much cheaper than back home - e.g. a hostel in Thailand while living off street food. I did it too. If youre the kind of person who flits between luxury airbnbs and cruises then yeah, "travel is a luxury". There seem to be a fair few of those here.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  US median income is like $35k. If you've ever flown on a plane you're in the top like 0.5% of wealth globally and probably top 30% in the US.
  - returningfory2 2y ago
    Wait are you claiming that only 30% of Americans have flown on a plane?
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      No sorry I was writing in a hurry. I meant something else but couldn't come up with a good definition quickly. I mean flown somewhat routinely and "recreationally" not for work, school, or emergency. I think 30% is probably about right with those constraints? Among tech people everyone has flown several times at least, but a lot of my family and social connections are inner city working class and many of them have never flown except possibly when a family member was hospitalized. Others fondly recall the single trip they took to florida or whatever decades ago. A lot of americans don't fly ever and it's definitely for financial reasons even though tickets can be very cheap. The flight is the cheapest part of a vacation and people making $30k at hourly labor are just not taking time off work to fly to new places.
      - returningfory2 2y ago
        Thanks for the clarification! I think it makes sense that there's some X% of Americans who fly "recreationally somewhat routinely" where X<100, but I'm not sure what X is. As a counterpoint to X=30, as of last Fall 48% of Americans had a passport [1] from which I think we can reasonably infer that nearly 48% of Americans have had an international trip in the last 10 years. The bar for recreationally flying in general is quite lower because it includes domestic flights. But also maybe the international trip was a once off. [1] https://www.state.gov/return-to-pre-pandemic-passport-processing-times/ https://www.state.gov/return-to-pre-pandemic-passport-proces...
    - photonthug 2y ago
- danaris 2y ago
  My family is fortunate enough to be able to take a European vacation later this year. It's going to cost over $10k, and most of that is going to flights (economy) and hotels (decent, but not stellar). A very large percentage of Americans wouldn't even be able to afford the ~$1k/person to fly to Europe, let alone any of the other costs involved. If you think that every American (or even nearly so) would be able to afford an overseas vacation if they just did the research, then I'm sorry, you really are out of touch with reality. Hell, a depressing number of Americans don't even have enough paid days off to be able to afford to take a road-trip-and-camping vacation within the country for any significant length of time.
- dagw 2y ago
  It's a lot cheaper than you'd probably realize International travel has gotten a lot more expensive over the past few years. I'm literally paying double for the same flight and hotel compared to 5-6 years ago.
  - spacemadness 2y ago
    It’s interesting how the thread starts off by expanding your worldview and then ignores the fact that international travel is often a luxury for the well off.
    - pydry 2y ago
      It's interesting how many people who engage in expensive luxury travel are unaware of the cheaper world of hostels, etc. exist. They belong to a privileged class. They might be able to afford vastly more expensive luxuries like a roof over their head that belongs to them and healthcare too.
- itishappy 2y ago
  Can we put some numbers to this? I think a weekend trip for two (including housing) is on the order of a months rent: roughly $1500.
  - ieie3366 2y ago
    For reference, renting a condo in lower-tier cities can easily be as low as $300-$400 per month in many countries
boringg 2y ago
Right it's the thought of the opportunity cost. That money could go to paying off debt obligations instead of adding more to the pile. Some people (probably a very low minority) are also of the thought that unnecessary consumption travel is a high impact on environment ~ something about climate change.

All those things cost quite a bit of money that most people can't afford. Seems quite out of touch with reality assuming that people don't travel because they don't want to.

pydry 2y ago

It's a lot cheaper than you'd probably realize thanks to decades of competition. It's unlike necessities like a roof over your head, education and healthcare. These are all increasingly unaffordable thanks to a war on the working class driven by the financialization of essentials.

JohnnyMarcone 2y ago
The flight alone is unaffordable or very expensive for most people in the United States.
- pydry 2y ago
  If you amortize the cost of the flight across a month or so in a LCOL region it can be cheaper than staying home. Staying at home is also increasingly unaffordable for a lot of people in the United States, of course.
  - danaris 2y ago
    Yes, but most of the cost of staying home is 1) rent/mortgage 2) food And you still have to pay both of those if you're on vacation. Unless you're suggesting that people pack up everything they own, move out of their house, and go on vacation for a month?
    - RetroTechie 2y ago
      There's people that rent out their house a la AirBnB, while out on a month+ stay in a LCOL country. And in some cases come out ahead doing so, while having a vacation. Of course it varies from household to household whether it's practical (or wise) to do this.
      - marssaxman 2y ago
        I have previously rented my house out on AirBnB, and it's not a switch you can just flip when you feel like taking a vacation; there is a lot of work you have to do to get your house ready to rent, and you have to establish (or maintain) relationships with people who can handle turnovers and other on-site services. A month would not be long enough that I'd feel like it was worth the hassle.
    - pydry 2y ago
      I know tons of people who worked minimum wage jobs who saved up and packed up and went on vacation for a month somewhere where the basics are much cheaper than back home - e.g. a hostel in Thailand while living off street food. I did it too. If youre the kind of person who flits between luxury airbnbs and cruises then yeah, "travel is a luxury". There seem to be a fair few of those here.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
US median income is like $35k. If you've ever flown on a plane you're in the top like 0.5% of wealth globally and probably top 30% in the US.
- returningfory2 2y ago
  Wait are you claiming that only 30% of Americans have flown on a plane?
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    No sorry I was writing in a hurry. I meant something else but couldn't come up with a good definition quickly. I mean flown somewhat routinely and "recreationally" not for work, school, or emergency. I think 30% is probably about right with those constraints? Among tech people everyone has flown several times at least, but a lot of my family and social connections are inner city working class and many of them have never flown except possibly when a family member was hospitalized. Others fondly recall the single trip they took to florida or whatever decades ago. A lot of americans don't fly ever and it's definitely for financial reasons even though tickets can be very cheap. The flight is the cheapest part of a vacation and people making $30k at hourly labor are just not taking time off work to fly to new places.
    - returningfory2 2y ago
      Thanks for the clarification! I think it makes sense that there's some X% of Americans who fly "recreationally somewhat routinely" where X<100, but I'm not sure what X is. As a counterpoint to X=30, as of last Fall 48% of Americans had a passport [1] from which I think we can reasonably infer that nearly 48% of Americans have had an international trip in the last 10 years. The bar for recreationally flying in general is quite lower because it includes domestic flights. But also maybe the international trip was a once off. [1] https://www.state.gov/return-to-pre-pandemic-passport-processing-times/ https://www.state.gov/return-to-pre-pandemic-passport-proces...
  - photonthug 2y ago
danaris 2y ago
My family is fortunate enough to be able to take a European vacation later this year. It's going to cost over $10k, and most of that is going to flights (economy) and hotels (decent, but not stellar). A very large percentage of Americans wouldn't even be able to afford the ~$1k/person to fly to Europe, let alone any of the other costs involved. If you think that every American (or even nearly so) would be able to afford an overseas vacation if they just did the research, then I'm sorry, you really are out of touch with reality. Hell, a depressing number of Americans don't even have enough paid days off to be able to afford to take a road-trip-and-camping vacation within the country for any significant length of time.
dagw 2y ago
It's a lot cheaper than you'd probably realize International travel has gotten a lot more expensive over the past few years. I'm literally paying double for the same flight and hotel compared to 5-6 years ago.
- spacemadness 2y ago
  It’s interesting how the thread starts off by expanding your worldview and then ignores the fact that international travel is often a luxury for the well off.
  - pydry 2y ago
    It's interesting how many people who engage in expensive luxury travel are unaware of the cheaper world of hostels, etc. exist. They belong to a privileged class. They might be able to afford vastly more expensive luxuries like a roof over their head that belongs to them and healthcare too.
itishappy 2y ago
Can we put some numbers to this? I think a weekend trip for two (including housing) is on the order of a months rent: roughly $1500.
- ieie3366 2y ago
  For reference, renting a condo in lower-tier cities can easily be as low as $300-$400 per month in many countries

boringg 2y ago

Right it's the thought of the opportunity cost. That money could go to paying off debt obligations instead of adding more to the pile. Some people (probably a very low minority) are also of the thought that unnecessary consumption travel is a high impact on environment ~ something about climate change.