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> You live in a country with the wrong type of political system for that. Valuing everyone's opinion equally is called democracy. Infrastructure should not be

> You live in a country with the wrong type of political system for that. Valuing everyone's opinion equally is called democracy. Infrastructure should not be subject to peoples' opinions. Like utilities and defense, infrastructure is crucial for security and commerce. People simply don't know better.

deepsun 2y ago
Remember in the movie Don't Look Up they democratically decided that the Comet is not real, and everything will be fine.
- tonynator 2y ago
  [flagged]
em-bee 2y ago
but there is a solution to this problem: education. and i don't mean propaganda, but teaching people not to be selfish, to care for others and consider others needs, to contribute to the betterment of society. to have compassion, remove prejudice, etc. if these values were taught in schools, then the next generation would make better choices and they would know better and vote for better infrastructure.
- Maarten88 2y ago
  It's hard to educate the next generation when everyone of all ages is exposed to relentless propaganda (also known as marketing, in all forms including the fully legalized corruption of US politics) at the same time. Oil and car companies' futures depend on continued public support for free parking, more lanes and housing far away from destinations. It's in their interest to manipulate people into opinions that are beneficial to their bottom line, and they will continue to do so.
- infecto 2y ago
  That will never happen. Thats the kind of utopian dream that will not happen regardless of level of education.
- anon291 2y ago
  It is crazy to honestly believe that those living in car dependent areas lack empathy. I'm sorry as someone who loves transit and will wax poetic on my lovely light rail, I am not okay with literally dehumanizing people I disagree with and saying they lack the ability to feel compassion. Come on.. you're better than that. Compassion, empathy, etc are found almost anywhere. Do people need to be shown it could work? Yes. They don't need to thought of as deficient people.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    i am sorry, but from personal experience, inside a car as a passenger and outside as a pedestrian or cyclist, many drivers believe they own the road. that's not dehumanizing them. that's reality.
- kortilla 2y ago
  The vision for what society should be is absolutely not consistent across political and religious spectrums. People vote completely the opposite on things like nuclear energy, wind energy, defense spending, etc all while thinking they are bettering society. Getting everyone consistent on those requires full on propaganda and forced “re-education” whenever people critically examine things.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    no, it requires even more critical examination. people need to learn more about the issues involved, and try to understand the needs and fears of others, and to work out a solution that everybody can live with. a consistent vision is that everyone has a right to live their live according to their own ideas, as long as that doesn't affect others. but this vision requires an understanding that we all are contributing with good intentions. it is the good intentions that we need to instill in everyone.
    - kortilla 2y ago
      What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. Look at the abortion debate. One side is about the rights of the woman and the other side is about the rights of the fetus. When people see the fetus as a baby, it suddenly becomes murder. There isn’t much nuance there for a compromise.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. what are current religions for you? i do not want to promote a particular religion on this site, but there are options out there that you may not yet have considered. i also believe that while peoples behavior reflects their religion, the religions do not control or limit anyones ability to examine things critically. if you are in a religious community that does that, i'd urge you to get out as soon as possible. Look at the abortion debate that kind of feels like moving the goalpost. just because there is one topic where a compromise is difficult, if not impossible, doesn't mean the whole idea of finding a solution that works for everyone is not possible. i am not american, so i am observing the debate as it happens there only from the sidelines. one of the primary criticisms i see against the anti abortion crowd is that they don't consider helping parents with resources they need to raise the baby. where i come from this is mostly a solved problem, because parents, including single mothers, receive plenty of support to raise children. but more importantly i have a problem with the major religions being obsessed with punishing people for breaking god's laws. as humans we need to concern ourselves with those crimes that actually cause problems in our society, and leave the punishment of breaking god's laws to god. the compromise is to recognize the needs of the mother as well as that of the unborn child.
tonynator 2y ago
[flagged]
- defrost 2y ago
  Mind out the Reds under your bed don't nip your ankles now ...
  - tonynator 2y ago
    [flagged]
infecto 2y ago
Totally agree on this one. I am a free market proponent but when it comes to infrastructure projects, often its hard for even the free market to get it right and its often better for a central plan to work off of (roads, electrical transmission lines, etc)
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  Mine is we need to stop pandering to weirdos when it comes to public infrastructure projects. There is a political process for approving them. And we shouldn't let weirdos get endless do overs in the courts when they lose.

deepsun 2y ago

Remember in the movie Don't Look Up they democratically decided that the Comet is not real, and everything will be fine.

tonynator 2y ago
[flagged]

em-bee 2y ago

but there is a solution to this problem: education. and i don't mean propaganda, but teaching people not to be selfish, to care for others and consider others needs, to contribute to the betterment of society. to have compassion, remove prejudice, etc. if these values were taught in schools, then the next generation would make better choices and they would know better and vote for better infrastructure.

Maarten88 2y ago
It's hard to educate the next generation when everyone of all ages is exposed to relentless propaganda (also known as marketing, in all forms including the fully legalized corruption of US politics) at the same time. Oil and car companies' futures depend on continued public support for free parking, more lanes and housing far away from destinations. It's in their interest to manipulate people into opinions that are beneficial to their bottom line, and they will continue to do so.
infecto 2y ago
That will never happen. Thats the kind of utopian dream that will not happen regardless of level of education.
anon291 2y ago
It is crazy to honestly believe that those living in car dependent areas lack empathy. I'm sorry as someone who loves transit and will wax poetic on my lovely light rail, I am not okay with literally dehumanizing people I disagree with and saying they lack the ability to feel compassion. Come on.. you're better than that. Compassion, empathy, etc are found almost anywhere. Do people need to be shown it could work? Yes. They don't need to thought of as deficient people.
- em-bee 2y ago
  i am sorry, but from personal experience, inside a car as a passenger and outside as a pedestrian or cyclist, many drivers believe they own the road. that's not dehumanizing them. that's reality.
kortilla 2y ago
The vision for what society should be is absolutely not consistent across political and religious spectrums. People vote completely the opposite on things like nuclear energy, wind energy, defense spending, etc all while thinking they are bettering society. Getting everyone consistent on those requires full on propaganda and forced “re-education” whenever people critically examine things.
- em-bee 2y ago
  no, it requires even more critical examination. people need to learn more about the issues involved, and try to understand the needs and fears of others, and to work out a solution that everybody can live with. a consistent vision is that everyone has a right to live their live according to their own ideas, as long as that doesn't affect others. but this vision requires an understanding that we all are contributing with good intentions. it is the good intentions that we need to instill in everyone.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. Look at the abortion debate. One side is about the rights of the woman and the other side is about the rights of the fetus. When people see the fetus as a baby, it suddenly becomes murder. There isn’t much nuance there for a compromise.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      What you’re describing absolutely does not exist if you have any of the current religions. what are current religions for you? i do not want to promote a particular religion on this site, but there are options out there that you may not yet have considered. i also believe that while peoples behavior reflects their religion, the religions do not control or limit anyones ability to examine things critically. if you are in a religious community that does that, i'd urge you to get out as soon as possible. Look at the abortion debate that kind of feels like moving the goalpost. just because there is one topic where a compromise is difficult, if not impossible, doesn't mean the whole idea of finding a solution that works for everyone is not possible. i am not american, so i am observing the debate as it happens there only from the sidelines. one of the primary criticisms i see against the anti abortion crowd is that they don't consider helping parents with resources they need to raise the baby. where i come from this is mostly a solved problem, because parents, including single mothers, receive plenty of support to raise children. but more importantly i have a problem with the major religions being obsessed with punishing people for breaking god's laws. as humans we need to concern ourselves with those crimes that actually cause problems in our society, and leave the punishment of breaking god's laws to god. the compromise is to recognize the needs of the mother as well as that of the unborn child.

tonynator 2y ago

[flagged]

defrost 2y ago
Mind out the Reds under your bed don't nip your ankles now ...
- tonynator 2y ago
  [flagged]

infecto 2y ago

Totally agree on this one. I am a free market proponent but when it comes to infrastructure projects, often its hard for even the free market to get it right and its often better for a central plan to work off of (roads, electrical transmission lines, etc)

Gibbon1 2y ago
Mine is we need to stop pandering to weirdos when it comes to public infrastructure projects. There is a political process for approving them. And we shouldn't let weirdos get endless do overs in the courts when they lose.