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> 1. Most homes aren’t in an HOA, so you have plenty of options if you don’t like it. That'd be an interesting stat to see, I assume it varies greatly by locat

> 1. Most homes aren’t in an HOA, so you have plenty of options if you don’t like it. That'd be an interesting stat to see, I assume it varies greatly by location. > 2. It prevents all sorts of tragedies of the commons. How so? Collective power can make tragedy of the commons problems worse. While a single family likely wouldn't buy up an adjacent piece of woods to clear for a neighborhood park, an HOA may be able to do that before someone else buys and develops the woods. > 3. HOAs would have no power at all if you could opt out. It has to be part of the contract. They can be dissolved entirely, but that’s the only mechanism for getting out. HOAs have whatever power the community gives them, there's nothing saying an HOA couldn't be optional. I actually lived in a neighborhood outside of Seattle with an optional HOA, it worked just fine. > 4. We believe in individual freedom, which includes the ability to chose to trade freedom for certain benefits. I trade my freedom to leave a rusty old boat in my driveway for the benefit of not having my neighbors do that. Most of us don’t have or want the sorts of things that bring down property values and don’t want to suddenly find ourselves living next to people who do. And that's totally reasonable. My point wasn't that there aren't incentives for homeowners to make that choice for themselves, only that it has always felt like an infringement of rights to legally bind a property to HOA governance. > People who complain about HOAs existing are the same as the people who complain about EVs. If you don’t want one, don’t buy it. I'm not sure where you're getting this anecdote, but here I am complaining about HOAs and I own an EV. This analogy really doesn't fit, one person's decision to buy an EV has no impact on other's right to choose what to buy where as an HOA does.

mattmaroon 2y ago
I suppose the commons issue depends on how you define the commons. HOAs often have communal areas like a pool. A communal pool with many owners no HOA would quickly become a disaster and probably form something like an HOA really fast. An optional HOA would just be opted out of by the worst offenders. If the whole goal is to keep your neighbors from ruining your property value, the ones who do would just opt out. The guy with the car on blocks can just sell himself his own house to get out of it. How is anything you get into willingly an infringement on your rights? Nobody ever had to buy a house that had to remain inside an HOA. They chose to and can choose not to. That’s what I meant by the EV thing. You’re complaining about a choice other people made willingly. Why not just not make the choice and let others do it?
- _heimdall 2y ago
  That's interesting, I'm not actually sure how a community pool would really exist without an entity that's responsible for it (either an HOA, the city/county, or a private club). > How is anything you get into willingly an infringement on your rights? Sure, once you sign the contract you've agreed to it. My point is just that it seems unreasonable for an HOA to effectively claim authority or ownership over a piece of property. I once lived in an HOA neighborhood that was in legal proceedings with a neighbor who refused to play along, the neighborhood was pretty damn close to foreclosing on the property before the owner finally sold and left. The EV example is still very different though. Buyers can choose to but any vehicle they want, there is no higher authority attempting to claim authority over some vehicles and requiring you submit to their rules and pay a membership fee. Buy an EV or don't, its totally up to the buyer. Additionally, when an EV owner wants to sell they aren't limited to the pool of buyers willing to join a private club, you just sell the car.
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    Well again, the person who the HOA was in legal proceedings against signed a document saying they would do “x” then did not do “x”. The document also outlined what happens if they didn’t do it, including, at the very end, taking the house. I believe every state has laws that make it very hard for an HOA to foreclose, they do not just do it on a whim. It’s simple contract enforcement, just as you’d get your house taken if you didn’t pay your mortgage or city property taxes. I don’t see what the issue is. I’m sure there are some egregious corner cases, there always are, but as a rule I see no problem with someone who signs a contract being bound by the terms of the contract, in fact I’d see a problem if they weren’t. My point about the EVs is people who hate EVs and do ridiculous stuff like block chargers are simply getting mad about other people’s decisions that don’t effect them. I don’t want an EV so I don’t own one, but I’m in no way angry that they exist or that you do. Hating your own HOA I totally understand, there are days I hate mine, but hating the idea that someone else is in an HOA willingly I do not.

mattmaroon 2y ago

I suppose the commons issue depends on how you define the commons. HOAs often have communal areas like a pool. A communal pool with many owners no HOA would quickly become a disaster and probably form something like an HOA really fast. An optional HOA would just be opted out of by the worst offenders. If the whole goal is to keep your neighbors from ruining your property value, the ones who do would just opt out. The guy with the car on blocks can just sell himself his own house to get out of it. How is anything you get into willingly an infringement on your rights? Nobody ever had to buy a house that had to remain inside an HOA. They chose to and can choose not to. That’s what I meant by the EV thing. You’re complaining about a choice other people made willingly. Why not just not make the choice and let others do it?

_heimdall 2y ago
That's interesting, I'm not actually sure how a community pool would really exist without an entity that's responsible for it (either an HOA, the city/county, or a private club). > How is anything you get into willingly an infringement on your rights? Sure, once you sign the contract you've agreed to it. My point is just that it seems unreasonable for an HOA to effectively claim authority or ownership over a piece of property. I once lived in an HOA neighborhood that was in legal proceedings with a neighbor who refused to play along, the neighborhood was pretty damn close to foreclosing on the property before the owner finally sold and left. The EV example is still very different though. Buyers can choose to but any vehicle they want, there is no higher authority attempting to claim authority over some vehicles and requiring you submit to their rules and pay a membership fee. Buy an EV or don't, its totally up to the buyer. Additionally, when an EV owner wants to sell they aren't limited to the pool of buyers willing to join a private club, you just sell the car.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  Well again, the person who the HOA was in legal proceedings against signed a document saying they would do “x” then did not do “x”. The document also outlined what happens if they didn’t do it, including, at the very end, taking the house. I believe every state has laws that make it very hard for an HOA to foreclose, they do not just do it on a whim. It’s simple contract enforcement, just as you’d get your house taken if you didn’t pay your mortgage or city property taxes. I don’t see what the issue is. I’m sure there are some egregious corner cases, there always are, but as a rule I see no problem with someone who signs a contract being bound by the terms of the contract, in fact I’d see a problem if they weren’t. My point about the EVs is people who hate EVs and do ridiculous stuff like block chargers are simply getting mad about other people’s decisions that don’t effect them. I don’t want an EV so I don’t own one, but I’m in no way angry that they exist or that you do. Hating your own HOA I totally understand, there are days I hate mine, but hating the idea that someone else is in an HOA willingly I do not.