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That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of

That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of anyone. Local laws supersede HOA rules where they conflict and often cause “grandfathering” when HOA rules change. For instance, my condo board tried to get me to remove my grill. I pointed out that nowhere in the condo bylaws was a grill mentioned. They said something about city fire codes, so I got a note from the fire department. They were unable to force me to do anything. HOAs in my city have passed rules saying owners may not use their condos for short term rental. But my city law says that changes do not apply to people who owned their rentals before the rules changed. So new owners may not but old ones still can. Rule of law still applies, and everything is agreed to when you buy the property. You could simply buy a home outside of an HOA, so this is, squarely, freedom of association. Nobody was implying that other countries do not have this freedom, in fact, he said the fact that they do is why he did not need to justify it.

jjav 2y ago
> That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of anyone. This is very idealistic, but not quite how it works. HOA boards can and do constantly violate with impunity the rules they are supposed to follow. Most often to embezzle funds but also to enforce their personal will. You can contest this of course, you can go to court. It takes pretty deep pockets to pay for lawyers and years of persistence. I know multiple people in years-and-years-long legal battles with HOAs. Those who have enough money to see it through often usually win, but it takes a lot of patience and money. Most people don't have that kind of cash to blow on fighting corrupt HOAs.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
> You are not at the mercy of anyone. In many jurisdictions within the United States, an HOA can assess fines for exceedingly trivial violations, then after the fines remain unpaid for a time period as short as 6 weeks, file to sell your home at auction to pay the fees. They can take your home from you, evict you from it, and this is deemed perfectly legal. Do they have to provide proof, for instance, that your grass was actually one half inch too tall? No, there is no adversarial process where they would have to prove that were the case. > I pointed out that nowhere in the condo bylaws was a grill mentioned. They said something about city fire codes, so I got a note from the fire department. They were unable to force me to do anything. It must be very thrilling to be able to be an amateur lawyer and win a case. Have fun, because those people tend to hold grudges. My experience is that you'll never have a week of peace for as long as you live there again.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  This all happened 3 years ago. I’ve never heard a word from my HOA since. I think the HOA board actually believed it was against fire code, but it turns out that’s only true if you’re not on the ground floor. (My community is 4 stories so 3/4 of people cannot have grills). Other grills have appeared since. They can only assess you fines for violations of rules you agreed to. And fines are usually small. For instance, in my last HOA, they fined me $15 for having A flag holder. I ignored the warning because it was there when I bought the place and I didn’t really want it anyway, and then when the fine came, I simply removed the flag holder and paid $15. Most of the cases were the end up confiscating somebody’s property is because they are simply egregiously not doing something they had already signed a contract saying they would do. I am sure there are cases, they always are, but it isn’t a legitimate problem.
mechanicalpulse 2y ago
> That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of anyone. This. I live in a drama-free HOA and appreciate it for what it is and does. I had to review and agree to the covenants of my HOA as a condition for closing. The rule most likely to be in violation here is something along the lines of “only operational automobiles in good condition are permitted to be parked in the driveway; any boats, recreational vehicles, broken down or unsightly vehicles must be behind a fence”. The whole point is to maintain a clean, safe, attractive, and ultimately desirable neighborhood so as to protect property values on behalf of the association’s members. Although this homeowner’s actions are characteristic of malicious compliance, I believe the net effect is precisely in line with the stated purpose of the HOA: in compliance with the rules, an elegant mural depicting a pristine boat now adorns a new fence that restricts sight of and access to a boat of unknown condition. Anyone driving by looking to buy might come away with a chuckle and the sense that the neighborhood is committed to maintaining a safe and attractive environment for homeowners.

jjav 2y ago

> That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of anyone. This is very idealistic, but not quite how it works. HOA boards can and do constantly violate with impunity the rules they are supposed to follow. Most often to embezzle funds but also to enforce their personal will. You can contest this of course, you can go to court. It takes pretty deep pockets to pay for lawyers and years of persistence. I know multiple people in years-and-years-long legal battles with HOAs. Those who have enough money to see it through often usually win, but it takes a lot of patience and money. Most people don't have that kind of cash to blow on fighting corrupt HOAs.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

> You are not at the mercy of anyone. In many jurisdictions within the United States, an HOA can assess fines for exceedingly trivial violations, then after the fines remain unpaid for a time period as short as 6 weeks, file to sell your home at auction to pay the fees. They can take your home from you, evict you from it, and this is deemed perfectly legal. Do they have to provide proof, for instance, that your grass was actually one half inch too tall? No, there is no adversarial process where they would have to prove that were the case. > I pointed out that nowhere in the condo bylaws was a grill mentioned. They said something about city fire codes, so I got a note from the fire department. They were unable to force me to do anything. It must be very thrilling to be able to be an amateur lawyer and win a case. Have fun, because those people tend to hold grudges. My experience is that you'll never have a week of peace for as long as you live there again.

mattmaroon 2y ago
This all happened 3 years ago. I’ve never heard a word from my HOA since. I think the HOA board actually believed it was against fire code, but it turns out that’s only true if you’re not on the ground floor. (My community is 4 stories so 3/4 of people cannot have grills). Other grills have appeared since. They can only assess you fines for violations of rules you agreed to. And fines are usually small. For instance, in my last HOA, they fined me $15 for having A flag holder. I ignored the warning because it was there when I bought the place and I didn’t really want it anyway, and then when the fine came, I simply removed the flag holder and paid $15. Most of the cases were the end up confiscating somebody’s property is because they are simply egregiously not doing something they had already signed a contract saying they would do. I am sure there are cases, they always are, but it isn’t a legitimate problem.

mechanicalpulse 2y ago

> That is not how HOAs work. They have a very defined set of rules, and a very defined process for changing and enforcing those rules. You are not at the mercy of anyone. This. I live in a drama-free HOA and appreciate it for what it is and does. I had to review and agree to the covenants of my HOA as a condition for closing. The rule most likely to be in violation here is something along the lines of “only operational automobiles in good condition are permitted to be parked in the driveway; any boats, recreational vehicles, broken down or unsightly vehicles must be behind a fence”. The whole point is to maintain a clean, safe, attractive, and ultimately desirable neighborhood so as to protect property values on behalf of the association’s members. Although this homeowner’s actions are characteristic of malicious compliance, I believe the net effect is precisely in line with the stated purpose of the HOA: in compliance with the rules, an elegant mural depicting a pristine boat now adorns a new fence that restricts sight of and access to a boat of unknown condition. Anyone driving by looking to buy might come away with a chuckle and the sense that the neighborhood is committed to maintaining a safe and attractive environment for homeowners.