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Book clubs aside, the ability to join a HOA is a freedom. Contrarily, if the Supreme Court forces New York City to allow guns in its Walmarts, that would be a r

Book clubs aside, the ability to join a HOA is a freedom. Contrarily, if the Supreme Court forces New York City to allow guns in its Walmarts, that would be a restriction of freedom. Freedom isn’t the same as lawlessness.

hiatus 2y ago
Businesses can't discriminate against different races either, you give up some freedoms when you hold yourself open to the public.
- dullcrisp 2y ago
  You’re right, disallowing race-based discrimination is also a restriction of freedom. I’m not arguing that all freedoms are good.
15155 2y ago
NYC banning guns in Walmart is a restriction of freedom, per Bruen.
- dullcrisp 2y ago
  The SCOTUS doesn’t define the concept of freedom.
gpvos 2y ago
It would be a freedom if you could own a house in that area and not join the HOA.
madeofpalk 2y ago
Is there a freedom to not join a HOA? Freedom to not associate?
- db48x 2y ago
  Of course there is; just don't buy a house that is part of an HOA. Most houses in the US are not part of any HOA. Apartments are also not part of HOAs (but of course anyone living there has to follow the rules put down by the owners, and it’s not like the residents get to vote on those). Condos are always part of a condo association, but those are a fraction of the housing in the US. Also, if your neighbor asks you to vote to create an HOA, vote against it.
  - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
    Covenants are separate from the deed and title searches fail to uncover them all the time. That's part of the problem, you buy a deed and some boomer crawls out from 6 feet under to unilaterally impose his will. It's infuriating as this crept up constantly when I was looking for land to build a tiny house and many sellers didn't even know some dead boomer made it illegal to not build a mcmansion in some ancient document the title clerk digs up. That some dead previous owner can unilaterally say 'none of that' and it be binding on subsequent transfers and heirs is opposite the freedom of association.
maxerickson 2y ago
HOAs are often tied to a piece of land, with it being mandatory to join if you buy the land. You are free to not buy the land of course.
- throw0101c 2y ago
  > HOAs are often tied to a piece of land, with it being mandatory to join if you buy the land. Legally speaking one is often not buying the land but rather buying the unit. The land on which the unit sits is owned by a corporation (HOA), and as a condition of the lease you must abide by the corporation's rules. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leasehold_estate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leasehold_estate If you don't want to live by an HOA's rules then don't live on the HOA's land, but rather your own land: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehold_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehold_(law)

hiatus 2y ago

Businesses can't discriminate against different races either, you give up some freedoms when you hold yourself open to the public.

dullcrisp 2y ago
You’re right, disallowing race-based discrimination is also a restriction of freedom. I’m not arguing that all freedoms are good.

15155 2y ago

NYC banning guns in Walmart is a restriction of freedom, per Bruen.

dullcrisp 2y ago
The SCOTUS doesn’t define the concept of freedom.

gpvos 2y ago

It would be a freedom if you could own a house in that area and not join the HOA.

madeofpalk 2y ago

Is there a freedom to not join a HOA? Freedom to not associate?

db48x 2y ago
Of course there is; just don't buy a house that is part of an HOA. Most houses in the US are not part of any HOA. Apartments are also not part of HOAs (but of course anyone living there has to follow the rules put down by the owners, and it’s not like the residents get to vote on those). Condos are always part of a condo association, but those are a fraction of the housing in the US. Also, if your neighbor asks you to vote to create an HOA, vote against it.
- beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
  Covenants are separate from the deed and title searches fail to uncover them all the time. That's part of the problem, you buy a deed and some boomer crawls out from 6 feet under to unilaterally impose his will. It's infuriating as this crept up constantly when I was looking for land to build a tiny house and many sellers didn't even know some dead boomer made it illegal to not build a mcmansion in some ancient document the title clerk digs up. That some dead previous owner can unilaterally say 'none of that' and it be binding on subsequent transfers and heirs is opposite the freedom of association.

maxerickson 2y ago

HOAs are often tied to a piece of land, with it being mandatory to join if you buy the land. You are free to not buy the land of course.

throw0101c 2y ago
> HOAs are often tied to a piece of land, with it being mandatory to join if you buy the land. Legally speaking one is often not buying the land but rather buying the unit. The land on which the unit sits is owned by a corporation (HOA), and as a condition of the lease you must abide by the corporation's rules. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leasehold_estate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leasehold_estate If you don't want to live by an HOA's rules then don't live on the HOA's land, but rather your own land: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehold_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freehold_(law)