4 ms·

Yes but I bet everyone will disagree about exactly where to draw the line between the two types of rule. It's the middle where it gets fractious. Question - Ha

Yes but I bet everyone will disagree about exactly where to draw the line between the two types of rule. It's the middle where it gets fractious. Question - Have you ever lived in a high-density environment? apartment block, terrace row etc.? Someone who has will have a different stance on what is acceptable regulation to someone that's only lived in the density of typical US suburbia.

jeltz 2y ago
Not exactly comparable but as someone who has lived all my life in apartments in Sweden have to say that people who grew up Swedish suburbia and moved into the city seems to be the most into deciding what others are allowed to do compared to people who have lived a long time in dense environments. Could just be that are used to different rules but I would not say we have more rules in the cities.
forgetfreeman 2y ago
I've lived in trailer parks, downtown apartments, mid-town housing projects, suburban neighborhoods, hyper rural farming communities, and my car on a few occasions. I don't fuck with my neighbors and won't tolerate being fucked with, regardless of setting.
- andybak 2y ago
  > won't tolerate being fucked with, OK. So you have your own rules, which you enforce on others? That's swell but I can imagine it could lead to problems. Maybe some form of committee where people can settle disputes and agree on standards?
  - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
    The peoples' glorious committee have never been a good way to protect property rights. Which is part of the reason why many rights are set up to not be subject to democratic opinion.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    It's like the concept of common decency is mysterious to you people. Rules? Sure, don't be a complete gaping asshole. Short of that I can generally figure out a way to get along with folks. Do you need a committee to instruct you on how to act?
    - andybak 2y ago
      Not sure who "you people" is referring to but if you're speaking to me then my response would be something along the lines of "I admire your optimistic outlook but even a cursory study of society would show that social consensus is incredibly fragile and to regard it as anything else smacks of naivety". So - as a society we've tried multiple different strategies to make it easy for people to live in close proximity and they all have different success rates and different trade-offs. Pick your poison.
      - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
        Private real estate property satisfaction and attainability for the common man hasn't improved much if at all since suffocating regulations and active committees really ramped up 50 years ago.
    - dTal 2y ago
      Do I? Hell no, I'm a model citizen. The trouble, you see, is with all these other assholes... You are positing an individualist solution (don't be a "gaping asshole" by some vague standard) to a society-level problem (people disagree on behavioral norms, and even if they agreed not everyone would comply). This doesn't work and is tantamount to just pretending the problem doesn't exist - a pretty common failure mode in the conservative mindset. See also: gun control is unnecessary because all you have to do is not shoot people...
      - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
        In theory juries only examine facts but in practice they are equal with judges in they decide both matter of law and fact and can nullify or convict without regard or with regard to either. The system we use in rural countryside where police basically don't exist, ultimately, is a direct jury of your peer neighbors. It's better if you don't like those decisions centralized to some far away assholes with even less aligned motives.

jeltz 2y ago

Not exactly comparable but as someone who has lived all my life in apartments in Sweden have to say that people who grew up Swedish suburbia and moved into the city seems to be the most into deciding what others are allowed to do compared to people who have lived a long time in dense environments. Could just be that are used to different rules but I would not say we have more rules in the cities.

forgetfreeman 2y ago

I've lived in trailer parks, downtown apartments, mid-town housing projects, suburban neighborhoods, hyper rural farming communities, and my car on a few occasions. I don't fuck with my neighbors and won't tolerate being fucked with, regardless of setting.

andybak 2y ago
> won't tolerate being fucked with, OK. So you have your own rules, which you enforce on others? That's swell but I can imagine it could lead to problems. Maybe some form of committee where people can settle disputes and agree on standards?
- beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
  The peoples' glorious committee have never been a good way to protect property rights. Which is part of the reason why many rights are set up to not be subject to democratic opinion.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  It's like the concept of common decency is mysterious to you people. Rules? Sure, don't be a complete gaping asshole. Short of that I can generally figure out a way to get along with folks. Do you need a committee to instruct you on how to act?
  - andybak 2y ago
    Not sure who "you people" is referring to but if you're speaking to me then my response would be something along the lines of "I admire your optimistic outlook but even a cursory study of society would show that social consensus is incredibly fragile and to regard it as anything else smacks of naivety". So - as a society we've tried multiple different strategies to make it easy for people to live in close proximity and they all have different success rates and different trade-offs. Pick your poison.
    - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
      Private real estate property satisfaction and attainability for the common man hasn't improved much if at all since suffocating regulations and active committees really ramped up 50 years ago.
  - dTal 2y ago
    Do I? Hell no, I'm a model citizen. The trouble, you see, is with all these other assholes... You are positing an individualist solution (don't be a "gaping asshole" by some vague standard) to a society-level problem (people disagree on behavioral norms, and even if they agreed not everyone would comply). This doesn't work and is tantamount to just pretending the problem doesn't exist - a pretty common failure mode in the conservative mindset. See also: gun control is unnecessary because all you have to do is not shoot people...
    - beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
      In theory juries only examine facts but in practice they are equal with judges in they decide both matter of law and fact and can nullify or convict without regard or with regard to either. The system we use in rural countryside where police basically don't exist, ultimately, is a direct jury of your peer neighbors. It's better if you don't like those decisions centralized to some far away assholes with even less aligned motives.