7 ms·

As far as I can tell, this directive mainly mandates that producers offer to repair certain categories of products, for a price or for free and that independent

by 8372049 2y ago

As far as I can tell, this directive mainly mandates that producers offer to repair certain categories of products, for a price or for free and that independent professional repair shops/services can access tools, parts and information needed to do so. > Producers shall ensure that >independent [professional] repairers< have access to spare parts and repair-related information and tools (From Art. 5) Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing here granting the right or feasibility of repairing things yourself. If I understand the directive correctly, producers can void all of this in a EULA. I may be wrong.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
impossiblefork 2y ago
I don't see how you'd get out of anything by an EULA. In Sweden such agreements aren't legally binding at all. I'm sure it's the same way elsewhere.
- 8372049 2y ago
  Are you sure about that? The core rule is usually that contracts are binding. In some cases they are void if exceptionally unreasonable. > While this proposal regulates certain business practices concerning repair in view of the sustainable consumption objective, >it safeguards contractual freedom< and is conducive to the freedom to conduct business (Article 16 of the Charter). The provisions under this proposal aim at boosting the repair market without creating a burden, in particular for small and medium-sized enterprises. Page 8
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Well, since EULAs are straight-up invalid in Sweden, obviously it can't be done in an EULA. If it were allowed it have be part of an agreement with the company that is done before the sale, and which is an actual proper contract. Article 16 says only: Article 5(1) and (2) and Article 6 of this Directive shall not apply to contracts for the provision of repair services concluded before [24 months after the entry into force]. 2. Article 12 of this Directive shall not apply to sales contracts concluded before [24 months after the entry into force] So while the wording you mention, it seems to only provide a transitional provision before people get used to the law.
    - 8372049 2y ago
      I hope you're right, söta bror. > since EULAs are straight-up invalid in Sweden Is there anywhere I can read more about that? I didn't find anything with a quick search. Sources in Swedish are fine. This EU source says basically the same as I do: EULAs are in principle legal, unless they're unreasonable/unfair. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treat...
      - impossiblefork 2y ago
        When I say EULA, I here mean additional license term for something that are 'agreed' to after the purchase. I haven't heard of any agreements being permitted to bypass the konsumentköplag. That is, when dealing with consumers you can't get around the requirements to repair broken products etc., but entering into agreements with the consumer to that end. These new repair things will probably be in implemented within existing consumer protection frameworks, and the whole point of these things is that you can't push complicated legal agreements on people.
    - 8372049 2y ago
      > Article 16 says only They are referring to Article 16 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights in the union, not this directive. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
      - impossiblefork 2y ago
        Ah, but >The freedom to conduct a business in accordance with Union law and national laws and practices is recognised. doesn't feel like it goes very far either.
        8372049 2y ago
        I am not a lawyer, and definitely not a EU law lawyer, but e.g. in the copyright law, it states that the right to dynamically reverse engineer a program can not be given up through agreement. I would presume that the above sentence about contractual freedom combined with that implies that you can give up the right to have something repaired through an agreement.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
You have the right to repair what you own. This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing you from doing so. Parts are already available in many cases and no-one prevents you from sourcing them. But in reality most people don't do that and don't want to do that. Either they call a repairman or they buy a new appliance, and this law won't change any of that.
- 8372049 2y ago
  > You have the right to repair what you own. Based on what? Specifically, it's not listed in Article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights [0] > This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing you from doing so. This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing professional repair services from doing so. [0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
  - Jnr 2y ago
    Based on the fact that you own that thing and you can do whatever you want with it. The issue until now has been the availability of documentation (schematics, instructions, etc.). For example, in USA you can purchase Volvo service manual access as individual, but in EU it is not available at all.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      Here in the UK manuals for most cars are available through Haynes. For example Volvo XC60: https://haynes.com/en-gb/volvo/xc60/2018-20-diesel-449210 https://haynes.com/en-gb/volvo/xc60/2018-20-diesel-449210 I had the one for my 2008 Ford Fiesta and it helped me doing some repairs myself.
    - 8372049 2y ago
      Having a "right" to repair something doesn't really mean much if the vendors can legally keep documentation and spare parts from you, does it? The point is that this law does not give you any more rights on that matter, it only grants those rights to professionals. Furthermore, "you can do what you want with it" is misleading if doing what you want with it (e.g. repairing it) will have unreasonable consequences such as unfairly void warranties and so on.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

impossiblefork 2y ago

I don't see how you'd get out of anything by an EULA. In Sweden such agreements aren't legally binding at all. I'm sure it's the same way elsewhere.

8372049 2y ago
Are you sure about that? The core rule is usually that contracts are binding. In some cases they are void if exceptionally unreasonable. > While this proposal regulates certain business practices concerning repair in view of the sustainable consumption objective, >it safeguards contractual freedom< and is conducive to the freedom to conduct business (Article 16 of the Charter). The provisions under this proposal aim at boosting the repair market without creating a burden, in particular for small and medium-sized enterprises. Page 8
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  Well, since EULAs are straight-up invalid in Sweden, obviously it can't be done in an EULA. If it were allowed it have be part of an agreement with the company that is done before the sale, and which is an actual proper contract. Article 16 says only: Article 5(1) and (2) and Article 6 of this Directive shall not apply to contracts for the provision of repair services concluded before [24 months after the entry into force]. 2. Article 12 of this Directive shall not apply to sales contracts concluded before [24 months after the entry into force] So while the wording you mention, it seems to only provide a transitional provision before people get used to the law.
  - 8372049 2y ago
    I hope you're right, söta bror. > since EULAs are straight-up invalid in Sweden Is there anywhere I can read more about that? I didn't find anything with a quick search. Sources in Swedish are fine. This EU source says basically the same as I do: EULAs are in principle legal, unless they're unreasonable/unfair. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treat...
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      When I say EULA, I here mean additional license term for something that are 'agreed' to after the purchase. I haven't heard of any agreements being permitted to bypass the konsumentköplag. That is, when dealing with consumers you can't get around the requirements to repair broken products etc., but entering into agreements with the consumer to that end. These new repair things will probably be in implemented within existing consumer protection frameworks, and the whole point of these things is that you can't push complicated legal agreements on people.
  - 8372049 2y ago
    > Article 16 says only They are referring to Article 16 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights in the union, not this directive. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      Ah, but >The freedom to conduct a business in accordance with Union law and national laws and practices is recognised. doesn't feel like it goes very far either.
      - 8372049 2y ago
        I am not a lawyer, and definitely not a EU law lawyer, but e.g. in the copyright law, it states that the right to dynamically reverse engineer a program can not be given up through agreement. I would presume that the above sentence about contractual freedom combined with that implies that you can give up the right to have something repaired through an agreement.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

You have the right to repair what you own. This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing you from doing so. Parts are already available in many cases and no-one prevents you from sourcing them. But in reality most people don't do that and don't want to do that. Either they call a repairman or they buy a new appliance, and this law won't change any of that.

8372049 2y ago
> You have the right to repair what you own. Based on what? Specifically, it's not listed in Article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights [0] > This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing you from doing so. This is aimed at preventing companies from preventing professional repair services from doing so. [0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
- Jnr 2y ago
  Based on the fact that you own that thing and you can do whatever you want with it. The issue until now has been the availability of documentation (schematics, instructions, etc.). For example, in USA you can purchase Volvo service manual access as individual, but in EU it is not available at all.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    Here in the UK manuals for most cars are available through Haynes. For example Volvo XC60: https://haynes.com/en-gb/volvo/xc60/2018-20-diesel-449210 https://haynes.com/en-gb/volvo/xc60/2018-20-diesel-449210 I had the one for my 2008 Ford Fiesta and it helped me doing some repairs myself.
  - 8372049 2y ago
    Having a "right" to repair something doesn't really mean much if the vendors can legally keep documentation and spare parts from you, does it? The point is that this law does not give you any more rights on that matter, it only grants those rights to professionals. Furthermore, "you can do what you want with it" is misleading if doing what you want with it (e.g. repairing it) will have unreasonable consequences such as unfairly void warranties and so on.