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This is the number one fascinating thing about the USA. Yes it's freedom, but freedom only means that whoever owns the land, whoever organizes something like a

This is the number one fascinating thing about the USA. Yes it's freedom, but freedom only means that whoever owns the land, whoever organizes something like a suburb or a festival, is free to impose whatever rules they want on the people utilizing it. This scales up to the world of business, it's really a dog eat dog system, the most anarchic system in the world I'd say. While simultaneously being very undemocratic in each individual cell of influence and power, depending on who is in charge. I'd be willing to bet there are HOAs in the US that are very democratic and hold regular meetings where every member is heard and has influence. Maybe in oregon... ;) Simply put, if you want consistency and fairness imposed then you need bigger government. But even that couldn't change the mentality of the United States citizenry. We have bigger government in most of europe, for better and for worse. It doesn't solve all problems but I still prefer it.

jononor 2y ago
It is very important to preserve the freedom of people with slightly more power to fuck with those with slightly less power!
kristopolous 2y ago
In the US, there's many doctrinaire refusers of anything with the "government" label so the exact same societal function and role is carefully reinvented without using that scary "g" word that leads to wobbly knees and couch fainting and so we have things like HOAs and a slew of other institutions. There's even privately run versions of it like the Irvine Company, which built centrally planned cities by a board of unelected bureaucrats - but you see that's privately owned, so it's great! Just don't call that the "g" word otherwise the blood vessels in many Americans foreheads are likely to pop while they scream about public libraries and the post office being a communist menace.
- INTPenis 2y ago
  And that's the mentality part that is a wildcard. On paper we might have good solutions in Europe, but the question is if those fundamentlists in the US will tolerate our solutions if they require government regulation. There is just no sweet way to sugar coat it for them. As an amateur anthropologist I can't help but wonder where this hard line mentality stems from. Because you can draw parallels with Australia, being virgin land, colonized very recently, vast spaces, but when they had a massacre and decided to take everyone's guns away, they were met with very little resistance. So clearly there seems to be some difference in the mentalities of people between Australians and Americans. US Americans are truly a unique breed.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    This history takes more than can be said in a single comment but it was a number of intentional campaigns starting around the 1950s. In the US, after the radical republicans and proto-communists fled europe in 1848, they came to the US and helped form the republican party which led to a civil war which was fundamentally about worker's rights. After that there were decades of skirmishes and unionization pushes that are celebrated everywhere but in the US (such as May Day). There were radical anarchist and socialist led efforts that brought about the 8 hour day, minimum wage, and weekends through armed violent struggle. This led to the professionalization of police (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_and_Iron_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_and_Iron_Police) and the earliest propaganda outfits which came out of WW1. Anyway, fast forward to after the war, the right wanted to not deal with that for another 100 years so they got to work on trying to flip the script. (for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Educat...) Clergy went from left wing to right wing, rural people went from bomb throwing anarchists to flag waving conservatives, the american spirit that led to the Burlington, Haymarket, and Railroad strikes, Battle of Virden Mines, Pullman Strike, Colorado labor wars, blair mountain, Harlan county war, all of these were redirected - redirected to scapegoats; women, government, gays, immigrants. For instance, modern country music came from folk music, which had a bunch of left wing songs (such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzvH5UZVQU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzvH5UZVQU8 or pre-ww2 folk singers like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill_(activist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill_(activist) ). It was re-invented, intentionally, as troop-worshipping, flag waving super-patriotism. It looks so weird as an outsider because it's a manufactured flip. The fundamental culture didn't change, it's just that propagandists can communicate their lies faster and more convincingly than those who constrain themselves to material reality. Scammers win because they're trying to convince, while honest people are trying to have integrity.

jononor 2y ago

It is very important to preserve the freedom of people with slightly more power to fuck with those with slightly less power!

kristopolous 2y ago

In the US, there's many doctrinaire refusers of anything with the "government" label so the exact same societal function and role is carefully reinvented without using that scary "g" word that leads to wobbly knees and couch fainting and so we have things like HOAs and a slew of other institutions. There's even privately run versions of it like the Irvine Company, which built centrally planned cities by a board of unelected bureaucrats - but you see that's privately owned, so it's great! Just don't call that the "g" word otherwise the blood vessels in many Americans foreheads are likely to pop while they scream about public libraries and the post office being a communist menace.

INTPenis 2y ago
And that's the mentality part that is a wildcard. On paper we might have good solutions in Europe, but the question is if those fundamentlists in the US will tolerate our solutions if they require government regulation. There is just no sweet way to sugar coat it for them. As an amateur anthropologist I can't help but wonder where this hard line mentality stems from. Because you can draw parallels with Australia, being virgin land, colonized very recently, vast spaces, but when they had a massacre and decided to take everyone's guns away, they were met with very little resistance. So clearly there seems to be some difference in the mentalities of people between Australians and Americans. US Americans are truly a unique breed.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  This history takes more than can be said in a single comment but it was a number of intentional campaigns starting around the 1950s. In the US, after the radical republicans and proto-communists fled europe in 1848, they came to the US and helped form the republican party which led to a civil war which was fundamentally about worker's rights. After that there were decades of skirmishes and unionization pushes that are celebrated everywhere but in the US (such as May Day). There were radical anarchist and socialist led efforts that brought about the 8 hour day, minimum wage, and weekends through armed violent struggle. This led to the professionalization of police (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_and_Iron_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_and_Iron_Police) and the earliest propaganda outfits which came out of WW1. Anyway, fast forward to after the war, the right wanted to not deal with that for another 100 years so they got to work on trying to flip the script. (for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Educat...) Clergy went from left wing to right wing, rural people went from bomb throwing anarchists to flag waving conservatives, the american spirit that led to the Burlington, Haymarket, and Railroad strikes, Battle of Virden Mines, Pullman Strike, Colorado labor wars, blair mountain, Harlan county war, all of these were redirected - redirected to scapegoats; women, government, gays, immigrants. For instance, modern country music came from folk music, which had a bunch of left wing songs (such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzvH5UZVQU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzvH5UZVQU8 or pre-ww2 folk singers like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill_(activist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill_(activist) ). It was re-invented, intentionally, as troop-worshipping, flag waving super-patriotism. It looks so weird as an outsider because it's a manufactured flip. The fundamental culture didn't change, it's just that propagandists can communicate their lies faster and more convincingly than those who constrain themselves to material reality. Scammers win because they're trying to convince, while honest people are trying to have integrity.