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No, the market cant handle that right now. A 4 day work week happens because of market forces. Companies don't need to offer perks unless they cant attract enou

No, the market cant handle that right now. A 4 day work week happens because of market forces. Companies don't need to offer perks unless they cant attract enough applicants or retain their top talent. We just saw this last year that companies done need anymore applicants. We are also seeing now that companies don't even care which part of their talent they keep. There might be a class divide coming that would include 4 day work weeks, but the vast majority of us scrubs are going to be 5 days a week for a while to come. At a minimum we are going to have to ride out this financial crisis for the next decade.

azinman2 2y ago
Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. I don’t see why that’d be necessarily true. In that scenario, it’s kind of like a part time worker and I can see many businesses finding appeal in that.
- whythre 2y ago
  I bet many businesses would love that. More places of employment start acting like Walmart, where you have to be management to get a full time job with benefits. Everyone else has a shifting 30-35 hour schedule that makes it effectively impossible to have a predictable, normal life outside of work. And no benefits for part time workers either. And the pay is so crappy food stamps are practically mandatory.
  - soco 2y ago
    Let me understand this: the state is actually indirectly subventioning Walmart with those food stamps right? It allows them to give crappy wages because the difference is supported with food stamps paid directly to the employees. And we still call this market economy and capitalism and and and.
    - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
      And yet, I only ever hear rants about the unemployed being parasites, but never the same about corporations despite them getting way more tax dollars when you add up subventions, grants, tax cuts and indirect support like described above and letting others pay for the damage they do to the environment.
    - machomaster 2y ago
      Sound like capitalism alright, what's the confusion?
- sk11001 2y ago
  > Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. It should be. Most people won't accept less pay even if it comes with reduced hours.
  - spoiler 2y ago
    Isn't the idea behind the 4 day week that you'd work a bit harder/longer on the days you're in? If I remember correctly, a few pilots in the past highlighted there wasn't a drop in output, but it remained the same or in some causes increased.
    - re-thc 2y ago
      > highlighted there wasn't a drop in output Most likely the bottleneck in those were elsewhere. It was mentioned that they reduced meetings and other time-wasting overheads.
    - jghn 2y ago
      Sometimes. And sometimes it means you get 80% pay. I’ve known a bunch of people who had 4 day schedules in 5 day offices and it varies
  - lm28469 2y ago
    I know many people who do it in Germany, above a certain size companies can't really deny you if you ask for part time (unless you're critical to the system and have to be there every single day), of course you get the pay cut that goes with it
    - sk11001 2y ago
      But they're doing it voluntarily. optional 4-day week with lower pay for the employees that want it = ok employer-enforced 4-day week with pay equivalent to current 5-day week = ok employer-enforced 4-day week with lower pay = not ok
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  > Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. Cost of living doesn't magically drop 20% just because you're not working that 5th day.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Cost of living doesn't magically drop 20% just because you're not working that 5th day Nobody living at their cost of living is in the ballpark for a 4-day workweek in the near future.
  - kettleballroll 2y ago
    But the amount of work you're able to do is. And companies need to make money, they're not s charity. I took a 20% paycut to work only 4 days a week. And I think that is fair, because my output definitely did decrease by 20%. This might not be true for everyone, but all of the "working more efficiently" thing doesn't really help you if you were already working pretty efficiently 5 days a week.
    - Shaanie 2y ago
      I kinda doubt your output decreased by 20%. Probably fairly close to it, but I'm guessing you got slightly more done on the other days.
      - Jensson 2y ago
        > but I'm guessing you got slightly more done on the other days. Or slightly less due to having to spend more time on overhead and reading up on things. There is a minimum amount of time you have to spend just to be ready to do your job, many current jobs are so poorly managed that most of their time is spent that way.
fbdab103 2y ago
Management seems determined to mandate RTO. I am not seeing a flood of alternative perks being offered with suddenly being forced to waste 5+ hours of my life each week commuting.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  What is it about managing others that attracts ghoulish humans?
  - senordevnyc 2y ago
    Alternatively, what is it about managing others that causes one to make decisions that you wouldn't have previously made? My answer: incentives. I suspect that if you started managing people, you'd start to see some of these issues differently too.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_superego https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_superego https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of...
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      :(
quickslowdown 2y ago
I know there are multiple ways this could be implemented, but the thing I'm hearing most is you'd probably work longer hours during those 4 days, which is a tradeoff I might be cool with. Otherwise, just chopping a day off the work week and not reducing my pay sounds great, too. I'm less motivated and productive on a Friday as it is, because my cherished 48 hours is finally within reach.
- galkk 2y ago
  Daycare closes at 5-6, and schools even earlier. That will greatly limit amount of people who can sustain longer hours.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    Not only that but also the reason why eight is popular is because it evenly divides 24. Which ten hours you pick starts getting hard.
    - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
      Kind of, I thought the reason was because productivity dropped after longer hours. But mostly, the idea it gives you 8h work, 8h sleep, 8h for self seems like rationalizing and not even entirely true if you commute, unless you take half your commute out of work time...
roughly 2y ago
The entire point of this is that productivity does not go down in a 4 day workweek and retention goes up. As an employer, you get the same amount of output, happier employees, and better retention. Everyone says they’re a data driven business until the data tells them something they don’t believe.
- diarrhea 2y ago
  Companies generally follow decision-driven data principles.
  - from-nibly 2y ago
    After having worked at a few companies I can tell you that they generally do not.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  One thing I learned working at a desk next to some marketing agency people is, if neither you nor your customer understand statistics, the data will just tell the story that makes both of you happy, and that keeps the money flowing.
  - roughly 2y ago
    And it does those two things in exactly that order, too. The myth of the rational actor is exactly that.
- kettleballroll 2y ago
  > The entire point of this is that productivity does not go down in a 4 day workweek Just an anecdote, but: my productivity definitely took a huge hit when I reduced my hours to 4days/week. All of the "working harder/more efficiently/more focused" doesn't help if you already worked hard/efficiently/focused. If you have a job with a lot of slack/downtime/waiting time... Sure. But sometimes, working 20% less means that 20% less work gets done.
  - 2y ago

azinman2 2y ago

Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. I don’t see why that’d be necessarily true. In that scenario, it’s kind of like a part time worker and I can see many businesses finding appeal in that.

whythre 2y ago
I bet many businesses would love that. More places of employment start acting like Walmart, where you have to be management to get a full time job with benefits. Everyone else has a shifting 30-35 hour schedule that makes it effectively impossible to have a predictable, normal life outside of work. And no benefits for part time workers either. And the pay is so crappy food stamps are practically mandatory.
- soco 2y ago
  Let me understand this: the state is actually indirectly subventioning Walmart with those food stamps right? It allows them to give crappy wages because the difference is supported with food stamps paid directly to the employees. And we still call this market economy and capitalism and and and.
  - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
    And yet, I only ever hear rants about the unemployed being parasites, but never the same about corporations despite them getting way more tax dollars when you add up subventions, grants, tax cuts and indirect support like described above and letting others pay for the damage they do to the environment.
  - machomaster 2y ago
    Sound like capitalism alright, what's the confusion?
sk11001 2y ago
> Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. It should be. Most people won't accept less pay even if it comes with reduced hours.
- spoiler 2y ago
  Isn't the idea behind the 4 day week that you'd work a bit harder/longer on the days you're in? If I remember correctly, a few pilots in the past highlighted there wasn't a drop in output, but it remained the same or in some causes increased.
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > highlighted there wasn't a drop in output Most likely the bottleneck in those were elsewhere. It was mentioned that they reduced meetings and other time-wasting overheads.
  - jghn 2y ago
    Sometimes. And sometimes it means you get 80% pay. I’ve known a bunch of people who had 4 day schedules in 5 day offices and it varies
- lm28469 2y ago
  I know many people who do it in Germany, above a certain size companies can't really deny you if you ask for part time (unless you're critical to the system and have to be there every single day), of course you get the pay cut that goes with it
  - sk11001 2y ago
    But they're doing it voluntarily. optional 4-day week with lower pay for the employees that want it = ok employer-enforced 4-day week with pay equivalent to current 5-day week = ok employer-enforced 4-day week with lower pay = not ok
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
> Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. Cost of living doesn't magically drop 20% just because you're not working that 5th day.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Cost of living doesn't magically drop 20% just because you're not working that 5th day Nobody living at their cost of living is in the ballpark for a 4-day workweek in the near future.
- kettleballroll 2y ago
  But the amount of work you're able to do is. And companies need to make money, they're not s charity. I took a 20% paycut to work only 4 days a week. And I think that is fair, because my output definitely did decrease by 20%. This might not be true for everyone, but all of the "working more efficiently" thing doesn't really help you if you were already working pretty efficiently 5 days a week.
  - Shaanie 2y ago
    I kinda doubt your output decreased by 20%. Probably fairly close to it, but I'm guessing you got slightly more done on the other days.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > but I'm guessing you got slightly more done on the other days. Or slightly less due to having to spend more time on overhead and reading up on things. There is a minimum amount of time you have to spend just to be ready to do your job, many current jobs are so poorly managed that most of their time is spent that way.

fbdab103 2y ago

Management seems determined to mandate RTO. I am not seeing a flood of alternative perks being offered with suddenly being forced to waste 5+ hours of my life each week commuting.

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
What is it about managing others that attracts ghoulish humans?
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  Alternatively, what is it about managing others that causes one to make decisions that you wouldn't have previously made? My answer: incentives. I suspect that if you started managing people, you'd start to see some of these issues differently too.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_superego https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_superego https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of...
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    :(

quickslowdown 2y ago

I know there are multiple ways this could be implemented, but the thing I'm hearing most is you'd probably work longer hours during those 4 days, which is a tradeoff I might be cool with. Otherwise, just chopping a day off the work week and not reducing my pay sounds great, too. I'm less motivated and productive on a Friday as it is, because my cherished 48 hours is finally within reach.

galkk 2y ago
Daycare closes at 5-6, and schools even earlier. That will greatly limit amount of people who can sustain longer hours.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Not only that but also the reason why eight is popular is because it evenly divides 24. Which ten hours you pick starts getting hard.
  - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
    Kind of, I thought the reason was because productivity dropped after longer hours. But mostly, the idea it gives you 8h work, 8h sleep, 8h for self seems like rationalizing and not even entirely true if you commute, unless you take half your commute out of work time...

roughly 2y ago

The entire point of this is that productivity does not go down in a 4 day workweek and retention goes up. As an employer, you get the same amount of output, happier employees, and better retention. Everyone says they’re a data driven business until the data tells them something they don’t believe.

diarrhea 2y ago
Companies generally follow decision-driven data principles.
- from-nibly 2y ago
  After having worked at a few companies I can tell you that they generally do not.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
One thing I learned working at a desk next to some marketing agency people is, if neither you nor your customer understand statistics, the data will just tell the story that makes both of you happy, and that keeps the money flowing.
- roughly 2y ago
  And it does those two things in exactly that order, too. The myth of the rational actor is exactly that.
kettleballroll 2y ago
> The entire point of this is that productivity does not go down in a 4 day workweek Just an anecdote, but: my productivity definitely took a huge hit when I reduced my hours to 4days/week. All of the "working harder/more efficiently/more focused" doesn't help if you already worked hard/efficiently/focused. If you have a job with a lot of slack/downtime/waiting time... Sure. But sometimes, working 20% less means that 20% less work gets done.
- 2y ago