5 ms·

Trump found guilty on all charges related to the hush money case

59 points by kachapopopow 2y ago

intexpress 2y ago
I don’t think this stops him from being President again. Because he will appeal and he already rigged some of the higher courts with Trump-friendly judges
- stanislavb 2y ago
  The bigger deal to me is that so many Americans (that many that he could win) are still going to vote for Trump! That's so disappointing of the American society.
  - intexpress 2y ago
    I think the most disappointing thing is that the Democrats aren’t running a better candidate. All the betting markets expect Biden to lose, and they have done so for over a year, but the Democrats still have not found a better candidate
    - lenkite 2y ago
      Speaking as a non-American, if Trump goes to jail for election-interference, so should Biden for covering up the Hunter Biden laptop story with his extensive drug addict lifestyle and his use as an intermediary for kickbacks to his dad - which was passed off as "russian disinformation". I mean the funny thing is that the reimbursement to Cohen was done in 2017 - after the election. And the two-year statute of limitations that was deliberately extended AFTER Bragg came to office in 2021 only covers up-to 2017 and not to a period before the election. So, what-ever way you look at this, the law was deliberately modified to get Trump. And even the extended law could only cover 2017 and not 2015/16. The guilty decision was made by FEELINGS and not law. This case will be easily thrown out on appeal. Hell, the most amusing thing about this show trial was the Judge forcing the defense to go before the prosecution for the closing arguments! Even the judge's daughter - Loren Merchan- is a fund-raiser for the Democrat party - who raised $93+ million while the trial was going on. Since HN is generally left-leaning and anti-Trump, my comment will be extensively voted down but it doesn't change the simple observable facts of jaw-dropping, overwhelming bias in this trial. The U.S. is unfortunately well on its way to being a standard Banana Republic. The worst part of this is that the world will now see this as standard operating tactics to adopt. Hey, if America does this in politics, we should do it too!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - kachapopopow 2y ago
      From an outside perspective I think Biden is a decent candidate, but I won't argue about if he did more good than bad. People know what to expect and the country is run by the administration as a whole rather than any particular individual. Although I have to admit that Trump did challenge that in my view as he seemed to push for personal goals a lot more than past few presidents from history.
      - shadowgovt 2y ago
        The issue is the President is also the face of the country, and a lot of voters are tired of having to choose between two geriatric guys from the last generation of politics. Trump gets a huge boost from voters who are simply exhausted from being told consistently that only those over 70 need apply (especially when so many perceive that it's a generation that is selfishly leaving the world as bad as possible on their way out). Though Trump is also part of that cohort, he's not considered an insider (counterintuitively; you can't get more inside than "was a President"). So he resonates with people who want an end to business-as-usual.
    - maroonblazer 2y ago
      You're making a category error. Biden is the incumbent. The Party always runs the incumbent. Is that how it should be? We can debate that, but that's how it is.
      - shadowgovt 2y ago
        It's the party that may be making a category error. There's no law that they must run the incumbent; it's just tradition (and a tradition with some reasonable underpinning... "Why should we listen to you if you don't even back the guy you sold us last time?"). But many voters are exhausted of tradition and fearful of where it may lead.
    - unclenoriega 2y ago
      I think it's important to point out here that it's not like the DNC decides who runs for offices. Biden chose to run for reëlection; no good candidates opposed him. At no point did "the Democrats" make any decision.
- falcrist 2y ago
  It can't stop him from running because prison doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate. IIRC, Eugene V. Debs ran from prison in 1920, and he got something like 5% of the vote... As a third party candidate. He was with the socialists.
  - hn_acker 2y ago
    > It can't stop him from running because prison doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate. I'm unfortunately reminded once again that committing certain felonies (or failing to pay legal debts) can permanently disqualify people from voting [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States#Circumstantial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_t... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States#Economic_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_t...
mlongval 2y ago
34 > 45 The new math.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kachapopopow 2y ago
Non paywalled: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/donald-trump-verdict-hush-money-trial-rcna152492 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/donald-trump-v...
mabedan 2y ago
Relevance?
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, *unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon*. A former US president being convicted of a crime is one.
  - falcrist 2y ago
    It also may be worth simply providing an outlet for people to make a comment so it doesn't intrude on usual business.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  He’s the first president in history to be convicted of a felony. This particular one is related to election tampering, where he paid off a pornstar that he had sex with while married to not tell the story during the 2016 election season. Seems like a big deal that many of us here should discuss. Hopefully as adults with the understanding that our country must socially mend ourselves eventually.
  - kachapopopow 2y ago
    Being an outsider I'm particularly interested in this as my friend keeps claiming that these charges are bogus even thought they're a smart guy. As far as I understand it's a jury trial which means it wasn't up to the judge to make the call.
    - Terr_ 2y ago
      > As far as I understand it's a jury trial which means it wasn't up to the judge to make the call. IANAL but I've done some jury-duty: As a general rule the judge is responsible for determining things like "which laws are involved here", and when there's a jury the judge creates instructions that cover the rest of it like: "The law says X. The question of Y is not relevant and you should not let it affect your decision. You must convict if ((A and B) or C)." So in a jury trial the judge might rule "those aren't actually charges you can make", but not so much "that evidence is fake" or "that person is lying" etc.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
maxerickson 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 has flagging turned off or suppressed or whatever.
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  How do you find these? There's no search on this site? Edit: My dark theme extension made it invisible, found it.
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    Right, there is search. And then also, I'd already seen it when I saw this discussion.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
shostack 2y ago
And Reddit comments are down (on Android at least). Coincidence?
- DoreenMichele 2y ago
  Coincidence? I would assume so. Reddit apparently launched some new "achievements" thing today. I've been assuming it's related to that being rolled out. New features typically involve some new bugs. I can comment, but can't see my "comments" section.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
kinghajj 2y ago
Mods should prevent flagging on one of these posts so that those of us who want to discuss it are able to.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  Yes this is a landmark case, clearly it’s fit for HN consumption regardless of being political.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
richrichie 2y ago
[flagged]
wumeow 2y ago
Remember, he can’t pardon himself of this if he becomes president because this is a state-level crime.
- richrichie 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jhanschoo 2y ago
    Why should I be persuaded by your opinion over the consensus of a jury?
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062
philbin 2y ago
[dead]

59 points by kachapopopow 2y ago

I don’t think this stops him from being President again. Because he will appeal and he already rigged some of the higher courts with Trump-friendly judges

stanislavb 2y ago
The bigger deal to me is that so many Americans (that many that he could win) are still going to vote for Trump! That's so disappointing of the American society.
- intexpress 2y ago
  I think the most disappointing thing is that the Democrats aren’t running a better candidate. All the betting markets expect Biden to lose, and they have done so for over a year, but the Democrats still have not found a better candidate
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Speaking as a non-American, if Trump goes to jail for election-interference, so should Biden for covering up the Hunter Biden laptop story with his extensive drug addict lifestyle and his use as an intermediary for kickbacks to his dad - which was passed off as "russian disinformation". I mean the funny thing is that the reimbursement to Cohen was done in 2017 - after the election. And the two-year statute of limitations that was deliberately extended AFTER Bragg came to office in 2021 only covers up-to 2017 and not to a period before the election. So, what-ever way you look at this, the law was deliberately modified to get Trump. And even the extended law could only cover 2017 and not 2015/16. The guilty decision was made by FEELINGS and not law. This case will be easily thrown out on appeal. Hell, the most amusing thing about this show trial was the Judge forcing the defense to go before the prosecution for the closing arguments! Even the judge's daughter - Loren Merchan- is a fund-raiser for the Democrat party - who raised $93+ million while the trial was going on. Since HN is generally left-leaning and anti-Trump, my comment will be extensively voted down but it doesn't change the simple observable facts of jaw-dropping, overwhelming bias in this trial. The U.S. is unfortunately well on its way to being a standard Banana Republic. The worst part of this is that the world will now see this as standard operating tactics to adopt. Hey, if America does this in politics, we should do it too!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kachapopopow 2y ago
    From an outside perspective I think Biden is a decent candidate, but I won't argue about if he did more good than bad. People know what to expect and the country is run by the administration as a whole rather than any particular individual. Although I have to admit that Trump did challenge that in my view as he seemed to push for personal goals a lot more than past few presidents from history.
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      The issue is the President is also the face of the country, and a lot of voters are tired of having to choose between two geriatric guys from the last generation of politics. Trump gets a huge boost from voters who are simply exhausted from being told consistently that only those over 70 need apply (especially when so many perceive that it's a generation that is selfishly leaving the world as bad as possible on their way out). Though Trump is also part of that cohort, he's not considered an insider (counterintuitively; you can't get more inside than "was a President"). So he resonates with people who want an end to business-as-usual.
  - maroonblazer 2y ago
    You're making a category error. Biden is the incumbent. The Party always runs the incumbent. Is that how it should be? We can debate that, but that's how it is.
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      It's the party that may be making a category error. There's no law that they must run the incumbent; it's just tradition (and a tradition with some reasonable underpinning... "Why should we listen to you if you don't even back the guy you sold us last time?"). But many voters are exhausted of tradition and fearful of where it may lead.
  - unclenoriega 2y ago
    I think it's important to point out here that it's not like the DNC decides who runs for offices. Biden chose to run for reëlection; no good candidates opposed him. At no point did "the Democrats" make any decision.
falcrist 2y ago
It can't stop him from running because prison doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate. IIRC, Eugene V. Debs ran from prison in 1920, and he got something like 5% of the vote... As a third party candidate. He was with the socialists.
- hn_acker 2y ago
  > It can't stop him from running because prison doesn't disqualify a presidential candidate. I'm unfortunately reminded once again that committing certain felonies (or failing to pay legal debts) can permanently disqualify people from voting [1][2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States#Circumstantial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_t... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States#Economic_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_t...

mlongval 2y ago

34 > 45 The new math.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

kachapopopow 2y ago

Non paywalled: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/donald-trump-verdict-hush-money-trial-rcna152492 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/donald-trump-v...

mabedan 2y ago

Relevance?

kachapopopow 2y ago
Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, *unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon*. A former US president being convicted of a crime is one.
- falcrist 2y ago
  It also may be worth simply providing an outlet for people to make a comment so it doesn't intrude on usual business.
ok_dad 2y ago
He’s the first president in history to be convicted of a felony. This particular one is related to election tampering, where he paid off a pornstar that he had sex with while married to not tell the story during the 2016 election season. Seems like a big deal that many of us here should discuss. Hopefully as adults with the understanding that our country must socially mend ourselves eventually.
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  Being an outsider I'm particularly interested in this as my friend keeps claiming that these charges are bogus even thought they're a smart guy. As far as I understand it's a jury trial which means it wasn't up to the judge to make the call.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    > As far as I understand it's a jury trial which means it wasn't up to the judge to make the call. IANAL but I've done some jury-duty: As a general rule the judge is responsible for determining things like "which laws are involved here", and when there's a jury the judge creates instructions that cover the rest of it like: "The law says X. The question of Y is not relevant and you should not let it affect your decision. You must convict if ((A and B) or C)." So in a jury trial the judge might rule "those aren't actually charges you can make", but not so much "that evidence is fake" or "that person is lying" etc.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

maxerickson 2y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 has flagging turned off or suppressed or whatever.

kachapopopow 2y ago
How do you find these? There's no search on this site? Edit: My dark theme extension made it invisible, found it.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  Right, there is search. And then also, I'd already seen it when I saw this discussion.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

shostack 2y ago

And Reddit comments are down (on Android at least). Coincidence?

DoreenMichele 2y ago
Coincidence? I would assume so. Reddit apparently launched some new "achievements" thing today. I've been assuming it's related to that being rolled out. New features typically involve some new bugs. I can comment, but can't see my "comments" section.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

kinghajj 2y ago

Mods should prevent flagging on one of these posts so that those of us who want to discuss it are able to.

ok_dad 2y ago
Yes this is a landmark case, clearly it’s fit for HN consumption regardless of being political.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

richrichie 2y ago

[flagged]

wumeow 2y ago

Remember, he can’t pardon himself of this if he becomes president because this is a state-level crime.

richrichie 2y ago
[flagged]
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  Why should I be persuaded by your opinion over the consensus of a jury?

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40529062

philbin 2y ago

[dead]