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What's wrong with the OOTB experience? It's a million times better than it was back when I lived in the Windows OOTB experience. It seems much better than the

What's wrong with the OOTB experience? It's a million times better than it was back when I lived in the Windows OOTB experience. It seems much better than the OOTB of Ubuntu, although probably less good than MacOS.

lolinder 2y ago
When did you last try Ubuntu? It's actually gotten very good, to the point where I had an easier time setting up an external Blu-ray player on Linux than on Windows this past month.
- kyriakos 2y ago
  My recent experience with a lenovo legion laptop was bad. Ubuntu boots then GPU driver crashes as soon you open a browser window. The end.
jimjimjim 2y ago
From memory: Ads. Weather and stock market info. Removal of options and features from windows 10 (why can't I have the taskbar vertically on the side of my wide monitor?). Flaky, slow and inconsistent bluetooth and sound controls. More and more things moving from control panel to settings where they are being dumbed down, leading to a lot more googling to figure out how to change things. Windows desperately trying to save things in onedrive rather than on the local disk. Really really trying to open everything in edge instead of the default browser.
neltnerb 2y ago
Without even getting into Recall, every time I install Windows 11 (not even a consumer edition) it takes a solid 10 minutes of clicking multiple times on hard to find options to disable the pre-AI spyware that merely monitored what you did for advertising purposes. And I know exactly where to click because I have to do it a lot. I run a lab with public computers for students to use in their projects. It is unhelpful to train a public computer with student data, even if it were ethical (it is not). Again, not going to get into the issues with Recall on public PCs... but you can use your imagination when students check their email on a public Windows computer. I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch, it actually hurts my mouse hand to have to click so many times in order to keep students' information private. Windows 11 has ~10x as many individual dialogs I have to click on than even Windows 10, and now I have to figure out how to disable even more unsafe stuff, or guess when they will silently re-enable something I previously disabled. The number of times OneDrive has reinstalled itself after a Windows Update is nauseating. And that's a fancy Enterprise edition for a university that had the leverage to get the worst stuff removed, I am sure I was able to add/remove programs to remove a lot of things that are just impossible to disable on a normal install.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch ... Have you looked at automated solutions for that? If it's a cost issue, then I think even Clonezilla will let you take an image of a "golden master" (aka pc set up how you want) then deploy it over the network to image a bunch of computers at the same time.
  - neltnerb 2y ago
    > Have you looked at automated solutions for that? Sure, I look forward to IS&T releasing one but it's more likely to happen if I have one to suggest they review for security. > If it's a cost issue, then I think even Clonezilla will let you take an image of a "golden master" (aka pc set up how you want) then deploy it over the network to image a bunch of computers at the same time. We used to do it that way with Acronis disk cloning. It is better to do PXE boot installs to avoid weird config problems according to IS&T, I didn't second-guess them on that. I don't hate the idea, just was told to avoid it.
    - justinclift 2y ago
      Ahhh yeah. I'd forgotten about PXE, it's been years since I did anything serious with that. That can work well if the network card(s) in the computers all support PXE booting.

lolinder 2y ago

When did you last try Ubuntu? It's actually gotten very good, to the point where I had an easier time setting up an external Blu-ray player on Linux than on Windows this past month.

kyriakos 2y ago
My recent experience with a lenovo legion laptop was bad. Ubuntu boots then GPU driver crashes as soon you open a browser window. The end.

jimjimjim 2y ago

From memory: Ads. Weather and stock market info. Removal of options and features from windows 10 (why can't I have the taskbar vertically on the side of my wide monitor?). Flaky, slow and inconsistent bluetooth and sound controls. More and more things moving from control panel to settings where they are being dumbed down, leading to a lot more googling to figure out how to change things. Windows desperately trying to save things in onedrive rather than on the local disk. Really really trying to open everything in edge instead of the default browser.

neltnerb 2y ago

Without even getting into Recall, every time I install Windows 11 (not even a consumer edition) it takes a solid 10 minutes of clicking multiple times on hard to find options to disable the pre-AI spyware that merely monitored what you did for advertising purposes. And I know exactly where to click because I have to do it a lot. I run a lab with public computers for students to use in their projects. It is unhelpful to train a public computer with student data, even if it were ethical (it is not). Again, not going to get into the issues with Recall on public PCs... but you can use your imagination when students check their email on a public Windows computer. I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch, it actually hurts my mouse hand to have to click so many times in order to keep students' information private. Windows 11 has ~10x as many individual dialogs I have to click on than even Windows 10, and now I have to figure out how to disable even more unsafe stuff, or guess when they will silently re-enable something I previously disabled. The number of times OneDrive has reinstalled itself after a Windows Update is nauseating. And that's a fancy Enterprise edition for a university that had the leverage to get the worst stuff removed, I am sure I was able to add/remove programs to remove a lot of things that are just impossible to disable on a normal install.

justinclift 2y ago
> I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch ... Have you looked at automated solutions for that? If it's a cost issue, then I think even Clonezilla will let you take an image of a "golden master" (aka pc set up how you want) then deploy it over the network to image a bunch of computers at the same time.
- neltnerb 2y ago
  > Have you looked at automated solutions for that? Sure, I look forward to IS&T releasing one but it's more likely to happen if I have one to suggest they review for security. > If it's a cost issue, then I think even Clonezilla will let you take an image of a "golden master" (aka pc set up how you want) then deploy it over the network to image a bunch of computers at the same time. We used to do it that way with Acronis disk cloning. It is better to do PXE boot installs to avoid weird config problems according to IS&T, I didn't second-guess them on that. I don't hate the idea, just was told to avoid it.
  - justinclift 2y ago
    Ahhh yeah. I'd forgotten about PXE, it's been years since I did anything serious with that. That can work well if the network card(s) in the computers all support PXE booting.