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The only thing this shows is that the education system actively resists preparing students to succeed in a modern economy. This is the modern equivalent of say

The only thing this shows is that the education system actively resists preparing students to succeed in a modern economy. This is the modern equivalent of saying "keyboards hurt penmanship education."

nebula8804 2y ago
>This is the modern equivalent of saying "keyboards hurt education, penmanship education is suffering." Ironically if I had listened to my teachers more I wouldn't be peck typing as a programmer and my penmanship would be more like cursive than the chicken scratch that I currently write.
greenthrow 2y ago
I get you're going for the "AI is a tool" thing, but the problem with your analogy is that LLMs hallucinate and many students use them in lieu of doing reading and reasoning about the content. LLMs are to english class as a car would be to running class. Yes, the tool exists and is useful but it prevents you from getting the intended benefit.
- philip1209 2y ago
  Seems like educators should be adding AI to their curriculum.
  - KittenInABox 2y ago
    How do you teach students how to reason around AI before you teach them how to reason, period? I think the problem is trying to teach the basic logic and philosophy of the fundamentals of subjects. I'm talking how to think mathematically. How to analyze critically. How to argue coherently. AI can be a boon to people who already have the capacity to reason around it, but first we have to reach un-developed brains how to reason.
  - greenthrow 2y ago
    Depends on the class.
  - prawn 2y ago
    I absolutely would be. At least a grounding in understanding pitfalls, and using good prompts. My kids have been watching me make a browser game where the design decisions are all mine/ours, but the programming is augmented by GPT-4o. As I go, I explain why I'm using the prompts I am, and how I integrate the code: wary that GPT has gone off-course the further into remembering the origins of a function that it is. The game is not where it is purely because of GPT-4o, but it has been a key component given I barely know the language being used. (They already do game making as part of STEM components at school.)
zero-sharp 2y ago
I don't think our existence should be dictated by economics. There are certain skills, creative and analytical, that should be practiced even when there is no economic incentive to do so. I actually think the idea of a chatbot solving your math homework or shitting out an essay is seriously regressive. Like, sure, if you instead train students to coax AI into producing "an answer", they might be able to find work. But they also missed the opportunity to practice certain cognitive skills that would enable them to develop their own ideas. Not everyone can be a specialist (or needs to be). But at the same time, they should not be handed a crutch from the get-to which discourages independence and practice. That's not to say that there aren't certain repetitive tasks that can benefit from technology. But have you ever had a numerical problem on a calculator? Do you realize how often technology can lead to bad math? It happens a lot. If you blindly follow wolframalpha, you'll get things wrong. And you'll have absolutely no idea why.
deleted 2y ago
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nebula8804 2y ago

>This is the modern equivalent of saying "keyboards hurt education, penmanship education is suffering." Ironically if I had listened to my teachers more I wouldn't be peck typing as a programmer and my penmanship would be more like cursive than the chicken scratch that I currently write.

greenthrow 2y ago

I get you're going for the "AI is a tool" thing, but the problem with your analogy is that LLMs hallucinate and many students use them in lieu of doing reading and reasoning about the content. LLMs are to english class as a car would be to running class. Yes, the tool exists and is useful but it prevents you from getting the intended benefit.

philip1209 2y ago
Seems like educators should be adding AI to their curriculum.
- KittenInABox 2y ago
  How do you teach students how to reason around AI before you teach them how to reason, period? I think the problem is trying to teach the basic logic and philosophy of the fundamentals of subjects. I'm talking how to think mathematically. How to analyze critically. How to argue coherently. AI can be a boon to people who already have the capacity to reason around it, but first we have to reach un-developed brains how to reason.
- greenthrow 2y ago
  Depends on the class.
- prawn 2y ago
  I absolutely would be. At least a grounding in understanding pitfalls, and using good prompts. My kids have been watching me make a browser game where the design decisions are all mine/ours, but the programming is augmented by GPT-4o. As I go, I explain why I'm using the prompts I am, and how I integrate the code: wary that GPT has gone off-course the further into remembering the origins of a function that it is. The game is not where it is purely because of GPT-4o, but it has been a key component given I barely know the language being used. (They already do game making as part of STEM components at school.)

zero-sharp 2y ago

I don't think our existence should be dictated by economics. There are certain skills, creative and analytical, that should be practiced even when there is no economic incentive to do so. I actually think the idea of a chatbot solving your math homework or shitting out an essay is seriously regressive. Like, sure, if you instead train students to coax AI into producing "an answer", they might be able to find work. But they also missed the opportunity to practice certain cognitive skills that would enable them to develop their own ideas. Not everyone can be a specialist (or needs to be). But at the same time, they should not be handed a crutch from the get-to which discourages independence and practice. That's not to say that there aren't certain repetitive tasks that can benefit from technology. But have you ever had a numerical problem on a calculator? Do you realize how often technology can lead to bad math? It happens a lot. If you blindly follow wolframalpha, you'll get things wrong. And you'll have absolutely no idea why.

deleted 2y ago

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