6 ms·

Only if there's no person at the helm with some sort of... um... vision, they call it?

Rinzler89 2y ago
If only Satya Nadella would dogfood the OOTB experience of Windows 11 and not whatever his IT departments set up for him, he'd probably throw his laptop out the window and fire half the Windows managers.
- wrs 2y ago
  ~20 years ago BillG would occasionally send an unhappy internal email to execs/architects with a list of annoying or nonsensical things he ran into using Windows, Office, or whatever. I can't say that it had much effect! Other than all installers being terrible, the only one I can sort of remember is a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    It had plenty of effect! WinXP/2k were the most logically organized Windows OS. It went rapidly downhill once Bill Gates left Microsoft.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      So Bill Gates was the good guy?
      - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
        Don't confuse competence and ethics.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    > a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense Where's the lie? They aren't the computer's document — they're mine! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX1x7pfH8fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX1x7pfH8fw
    - wrs 2y ago
      Exactly, so why is the computer referring to them as “My Documents”? Shouldn’t it be “Your Documents”? But I think his preference was just “Documents” so nobody would need to even consider this!
  - hulitu 2y ago
    I guess the purpose of "My Documents" and "Program Files" was to break compatibility with some old DOS programs. Because using space in filenames was not a very wise idea from Microsoft. (it broke even some Microsoft programs)
    - wrs 2y ago
      The “interesting” parsing behavior of CMD.EXE made the spaces extra fun. Not to mention it was under “Documents and Settings” and it was pretty easy to hit the 255 character path limit with all that as a prefix.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    > a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense. Well, we're not in a communist country for them to be "Our Documents", so of course it will be "My Documents". USA! USA! USA!
- kenjackson 2y ago
  What's wrong with the OOTB experience? It's a million times better than it was back when I lived in the Windows OOTB experience. It seems much better than the OOTB of Ubuntu, although probably less good than MacOS.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    When did you last try Ubuntu? It's actually gotten very good, to the point where I had an easier time setting up an external Blu-ray player on Linux than on Windows this past month.
    - kyriakos 2y ago
      My recent experience with a lenovo legion laptop was bad. Ubuntu boots then GPU driver crashes as soon you open a browser window. The end.
  - jimjimjim 2y ago
    From memory: Ads. Weather and stock market info. Removal of options and features from windows 10 (why can't I have the taskbar vertically on the side of my wide monitor?). Flaky, slow and inconsistent bluetooth and sound controls. More and more things moving from control panel to settings where they are being dumbed down, leading to a lot more googling to figure out how to change things. Windows desperately trying to save things in onedrive rather than on the local disk. Really really trying to open everything in edge instead of the default browser.
  - neltnerb 2y ago
    Without even getting into Recall, every time I install Windows 11 (not even a consumer edition) it takes a solid 10 minutes of clicking multiple times on hard to find options to disable the pre-AI spyware that merely monitored what you did for advertising purposes. And I know exactly where to click because I have to do it a lot. I run a lab with public computers for students to use in their projects. It is unhelpful to train a public computer with student data, even if it were ethical (it is not). Again, not going to get into the issues with Recall on public PCs... but you can use your imagination when students check their email on a public Windows computer. I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch, it actually hurts my mouse hand to have to click so many times in order to keep students' information private. Windows 11 has ~10x as many individual dialogs I have to click on than even Windows 10, and now I have to figure out how to disable even more unsafe stuff, or guess when they will silently re-enable something I previously disabled. The number of times OneDrive has reinstalled itself after a Windows Update is nauseating. And that's a fancy Enterprise edition for a university that had the leverage to get the worst stuff removed, I am sure I was able to add/remove programs to remove a lot of things that are just impossible to disable on a normal install.
- kyriakos 2y ago
  I'd take OOTB windows than anything the IT departments set me up any day. If you ever worked at a big corp using Windows you know what I mean.
  - nikau 2y ago
    you cant download viruses or exfiltrate data if security tooling uses 100% of your CPU taps head
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Who do you think is responsible for where Windows is going?

If only Satya Nadella would dogfood the OOTB experience of Windows 11 and not whatever his IT departments set up for him, he'd probably throw his laptop out the window and fire half the Windows managers.

wrs 2y ago
~20 years ago BillG would occasionally send an unhappy internal email to execs/architects with a list of annoying or nonsensical things he ran into using Windows, Office, or whatever. I can't say that it had much effect! Other than all installers being terrible, the only one I can sort of remember is a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense.
- cyberax 2y ago
  It had plenty of effect! WinXP/2k were the most logically organized Windows OS. It went rapidly downhill once Bill Gates left Microsoft.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    So Bill Gates was the good guy?
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      Don't confuse competence and ethics.
- Lammy 2y ago
  > a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense Where's the lie? They aren't the computer's document — they're mine! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX1x7pfH8fw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX1x7pfH8fw
  - wrs 2y ago
    Exactly, so why is the computer referring to them as “My Documents”? Shouldn’t it be “Your Documents”? But I think his preference was just “Documents” so nobody would need to even consider this!
- hulitu 2y ago
  I guess the purpose of "My Documents" and "Program Files" was to break compatibility with some old DOS programs. Because using space in filenames was not a very wise idea from Microsoft. (it broke even some Microsoft programs)
  - wrs 2y ago
    The “interesting” parsing behavior of CMD.EXE made the spaces extra fun. Not to mention it was under “Documents and Settings” and it was pretty easy to hit the 255 character path limit with all that as a prefix.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  > a rant about "My Documents" and how the word "My" made no sense. Well, we're not in a communist country for them to be "Our Documents", so of course it will be "My Documents". USA! USA! USA!
kenjackson 2y ago
What's wrong with the OOTB experience? It's a million times better than it was back when I lived in the Windows OOTB experience. It seems much better than the OOTB of Ubuntu, although probably less good than MacOS.
- lolinder 2y ago
  When did you last try Ubuntu? It's actually gotten very good, to the point where I had an easier time setting up an external Blu-ray player on Linux than on Windows this past month.
  - kyriakos 2y ago
    My recent experience with a lenovo legion laptop was bad. Ubuntu boots then GPU driver crashes as soon you open a browser window. The end.
- jimjimjim 2y ago
  From memory: Ads. Weather and stock market info. Removal of options and features from windows 10 (why can't I have the taskbar vertically on the side of my wide monitor?). Flaky, slow and inconsistent bluetooth and sound controls. More and more things moving from control panel to settings where they are being dumbed down, leading to a lot more googling to figure out how to change things. Windows desperately trying to save things in onedrive rather than on the local disk. Really really trying to open everything in edge instead of the default browser.
- neltnerb 2y ago
  Without even getting into Recall, every time I install Windows 11 (not even a consumer edition) it takes a solid 10 minutes of clicking multiple times on hard to find options to disable the pre-AI spyware that merely monitored what you did for advertising purposes. And I know exactly where to click because I have to do it a lot. I run a lab with public computers for students to use in their projects. It is unhelpful to train a public computer with student data, even if it were ethical (it is not). Again, not going to get into the issues with Recall on public PCs... but you can use your imagination when students check their email on a public Windows computer. I set up dozens of computers in this lab each year from scratch, it actually hurts my mouse hand to have to click so many times in order to keep students' information private. Windows 11 has ~10x as many individual dialogs I have to click on than even Windows 10, and now I have to figure out how to disable even more unsafe stuff, or guess when they will silently re-enable something I previously disabled. The number of times OneDrive has reinstalled itself after a Windows Update is nauseating. And that's a fancy Enterprise edition for a university that had the leverage to get the worst stuff removed, I am sure I was able to add/remove programs to remove a lot of things that are just impossible to disable on a normal install.
kyriakos 2y ago
I'd take OOTB windows than anything the IT departments set me up any day. If you ever worked at a big corp using Windows you know what I mean.
- nikau 2y ago
  you cant download viruses or exfiltrate data if security tooling uses 100% of your CPU taps head
pjmlp 2y ago
Who do you think is responsible for where Windows is going?