4 ms·

Wayland 1.23 Released with OpenBSD Support

15 points by mikece 2y ago

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
Any day, uh, decade now... I'm glad mint is dragging it's feet on Wayland. As usual, Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot as much as possible with the shenanigans going on in Windows 11. Luckily for Microsoft, Weyland is here to basically block any sort of hope of a good desktop UI for at least another 15 years on Linux. I understand what the goals of the project were, The practical effects of Wayland have been to paralyze progress on viable Linux desktop.
- palata 2y ago
  Sounds like you don't use Wayland. Can you elaborate on what paralyzes progress on Linux Desktop? From my point of view it works great...
- pjmlp 2y ago
  When Windows Vista was introduced with DirectX 10 being Vista only and not down ported, with a new driver model, there was this rage that everyone would be going into Linux Desktop. This keeps repeating every time a new Windows version comes out. Instead, people pick Apple and Google devices, and even if ChromeOS and Android have a Linux kernel underneath, that is pretty much irrelevant for the ecosystem of JavaScript, Java, Kotlin and C++ applications. Or they just stay on Windows no matter what.
  - palata 2y ago
    My beef with people moving to Linux because they are pissed at Windows is that often, they don't want Linux. Or said differently, they want Linux to look and feel like Windows, and push for that. I have seen many developers who are on Ubuntu apparently because it's free, but they behave like if it was Windows. They don't understand that Linux is not just Ubuntu and that they should not assume that everybody is running exactly their version of Ubuntu. IMO if they want something that looks and feel like Windows, they should stay on Windows.
palata 2y ago
I have been using Wayland everyday for a year now. I don't get why people complain about it: it's great! I had some setup to do at the beginning (I am using Sway), and I haven't had any problem since then. Edit: actually, to be very honest, it happened twice in the year that it somehow did not come back from suspend and I had to kill and restart it (but I can't even say if the bug was in Wayland, or maybe Sway, or something else).
- josephcsible 2y ago
  > I don't get why people complain about it: it's great! That's what's insidious about Wayland. If it gave everyone a bunch of little paper cuts, it wouldn't be nearly as polarizing. Instead, it's great for the common use cases but unusably bad for the uncommon ones, so people who don't have any of the uncommon ones end up thinking that the people who do are exaggerating the problems.
  - palata 2y ago
    But the uncommon use cases are... uncommon. Not that they should be ignored, but then I don't get why it seems like everybody avoids Wayland.
    - josephcsible 2y ago
      Any individual uncommon use case is uncommon, but there's a lot of uncommon use cases. I'd be very surprised if fewer than 20% of Linux users had at least one uncommon use case that X handles perfectly but that Wayland can't handle at all.
- hakfoo 2y ago
  Here's my problem: I don't want tiling windows. I want title bars. I don't want to run KDE or GNOME. I want desktop computing like it was in 1994. In the X11 universe, there's a galaxy of decent full featured window managers that fit my needs. Yes, some of them are archaic, but they work. On Wayland, I don't have that option. There are: * Experimental projects which went inactive several years ago. Since the compositor has so many more moving parts than an X11 Window Manager, I'm not sure how viable these are. * Weston, which is extremely limited in features, so I'm not sure all Wayland tools are happy with it * In-process wlroots projects like labwc and wayfire that sort of work, but often feel surprisingly incomplete. (labwc's theming is weak, Wayfire doesn't know what window shading is) If there was something that felt complete and workable-- a FVWM or a WindowMaker, I wouldn't feel like I'm giving up quality-of-experience for the sake of Waylandness.
bluepoint 2y ago
Does anyone know of what exactly does the openbsd support consist?
- SushiHippie 2y ago
  https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/256 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_reque...
hollerith 2y ago
I have been using Wayland since Jan 2021. I think it is great. Also, ChromeOS is switching or has switched to Wayland. (They used to use their own homegrown solution.)
- pjmlp 2y ago
  It is also what WSL makes use of.
hollerith 2y ago
You might be using a Wayland compositor without realizing it. `printenv XDG_SESSION_TYPE` to find out.

15 points by mikece 2y ago

Any day, uh, decade now... I'm glad mint is dragging it's feet on Wayland. As usual, Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot as much as possible with the shenanigans going on in Windows 11. Luckily for Microsoft, Weyland is here to basically block any sort of hope of a good desktop UI for at least another 15 years on Linux. I understand what the goals of the project were, The practical effects of Wayland have been to paralyze progress on viable Linux desktop.

palata 2y ago
Sounds like you don't use Wayland. Can you elaborate on what paralyzes progress on Linux Desktop? From my point of view it works great...
pjmlp 2y ago
When Windows Vista was introduced with DirectX 10 being Vista only and not down ported, with a new driver model, there was this rage that everyone would be going into Linux Desktop. This keeps repeating every time a new Windows version comes out. Instead, people pick Apple and Google devices, and even if ChromeOS and Android have a Linux kernel underneath, that is pretty much irrelevant for the ecosystem of JavaScript, Java, Kotlin and C++ applications. Or they just stay on Windows no matter what.
- palata 2y ago
  My beef with people moving to Linux because they are pissed at Windows is that often, they don't want Linux. Or said differently, they want Linux to look and feel like Windows, and push for that. I have seen many developers who are on Ubuntu apparently because it's free, but they behave like if it was Windows. They don't understand that Linux is not just Ubuntu and that they should not assume that everybody is running exactly their version of Ubuntu. IMO if they want something that looks and feel like Windows, they should stay on Windows.

palata 2y ago

I have been using Wayland everyday for a year now. I don't get why people complain about it: it's great! I had some setup to do at the beginning (I am using Sway), and I haven't had any problem since then. Edit: actually, to be very honest, it happened twice in the year that it somehow did not come back from suspend and I had to kill and restart it (but I can't even say if the bug was in Wayland, or maybe Sway, or something else).

josephcsible 2y ago
> I don't get why people complain about it: it's great! That's what's insidious about Wayland. If it gave everyone a bunch of little paper cuts, it wouldn't be nearly as polarizing. Instead, it's great for the common use cases but unusably bad for the uncommon ones, so people who don't have any of the uncommon ones end up thinking that the people who do are exaggerating the problems.
- palata 2y ago
  But the uncommon use cases are... uncommon. Not that they should be ignored, but then I don't get why it seems like everybody avoids Wayland.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    Any individual uncommon use case is uncommon, but there's a lot of uncommon use cases. I'd be very surprised if fewer than 20% of Linux users had at least one uncommon use case that X handles perfectly but that Wayland can't handle at all.
hakfoo 2y ago
Here's my problem: I don't want tiling windows. I want title bars. I don't want to run KDE or GNOME. I want desktop computing like it was in 1994. In the X11 universe, there's a galaxy of decent full featured window managers that fit my needs. Yes, some of them are archaic, but they work. On Wayland, I don't have that option. There are: * Experimental projects which went inactive several years ago. Since the compositor has so many more moving parts than an X11 Window Manager, I'm not sure how viable these are. * Weston, which is extremely limited in features, so I'm not sure all Wayland tools are happy with it * In-process wlroots projects like labwc and wayfire that sort of work, but often feel surprisingly incomplete. (labwc's theming is weak, Wayfire doesn't know what window shading is) If there was something that felt complete and workable-- a FVWM or a WindowMaker, I wouldn't feel like I'm giving up quality-of-experience for the sake of Waylandness.

bluepoint 2y ago

Does anyone know of what exactly does the openbsd support consist?

SushiHippie 2y ago
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_requests/256 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/merge_reque...

hollerith 2y ago

I have been using Wayland since Jan 2021. I think it is great. Also, ChromeOS is switching or has switched to Wayland. (They used to use their own homegrown solution.)

pjmlp 2y ago
It is also what WSL makes use of.

hollerith 2y ago

You might be using a Wayland compositor without realizing it. `printenv XDG_SESSION_TYPE` to find out.