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Ask HN: Whould you replicate a protocol of landing a coin on the edge?

If I develop an extensive protocol of training, which may lead someone to flip a coin and land it on the edge (instead of heads/tails) with a bit higher than ~1/6000 probability, would you try to replicate it? The protocol includes a range from safe enough harnessing of GABA-A etc neurotransmission for brain-arm coordination to esoteric focusing techniques modified for this specific goal. (Of course I'd test this myself first)

PaulHoule 2y ago
If I was looking to expand human potential I'd be trying to develop a protocol to develop a psychogenic fever on command. Since it activates brown fat burning it might put Ozempic out of business if it wasn't likely the side effects would be worse.
- spacetimeuser5 2y ago
  This has already been developed. The goal is to land a coin on the edge with more than 1/6000 probability.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    How? If were in your shoes I'd start with optimizing the coin and the surface it falls on. Gambling cheaters will coat their hands with sticky stuff so they can take an extra chip here or there, if you coat the edge of the coin with that kind of stuff it would help I think.
    - spacetimeuser5 2y ago
      Suppose the protocol exists. It's not "gambling cheating" at all, it's not even "gambling", rather following some general methodological guidelines from quantum mechanics (least but not last). The question is to get enough subjects willing to replicate it.
      - PaulHoule 2y ago
        There's a close tie between card and coin magic and techniques of gambling cheating. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scarne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scarne There are numerous techniques to throw dice with controlled rotation so you can be sure that one side will wind up on top or that a particular axis stays horizontal so you know two sides will never come up. This is why playing craps you have to bounce the dice off a wall. It is possible sometime to throw non-spinning dice right into the corner of the wall and the floor but if you succeed at that you will never play craps with those people. I think your problem is really close to that problem, I don't think there's anything wrong with card mechanics and such, it's using it to cheat that is wrong.
        spacetimeuser5 2y ago
        I'd focus on coins only. There was a link on HN about some pilot study by some students, where they tried to emulate or used an actual mechanical hand or something similar flipping coins. How? (though not in my protocol) For example, attaching a magnetic levitation system under the surface with the flipper unaware of it, and upon switching the current on through the system, the coin levitates probably on its edge. And it is a problem for the flippers and inference makers for not being able to arrange for such option.
    - spacetimeuser5 2y ago
      Consider the law of induction, according to which the fact that monkeys flipped coins for gozzilions of years with an average probability 0.5 doesn't mean they'd flip it with the same probability tomorrow.
MatthiasPortzel 2y ago
No but I would read a sci-fi short story about someone who figured out how to land a coin on its edge, similar to https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/angel-of-red-and-white https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/angel-of-red-and-white
- spacetimeuser5 2y ago
  ok, won't read neither write it then.

PaulHoule 2y ago

If I was looking to expand human potential I'd be trying to develop a protocol to develop a psychogenic fever on command. Since it activates brown fat burning it might put Ozempic out of business if it wasn't likely the side effects would be worse.

spacetimeuser5 2y ago
This has already been developed. The goal is to land a coin on the edge with more than 1/6000 probability.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  How? If were in your shoes I'd start with optimizing the coin and the surface it falls on. Gambling cheaters will coat their hands with sticky stuff so they can take an extra chip here or there, if you coat the edge of the coin with that kind of stuff it would help I think.
  - spacetimeuser5 2y ago
    Suppose the protocol exists. It's not "gambling cheating" at all, it's not even "gambling", rather following some general methodological guidelines from quantum mechanics (least but not last). The question is to get enough subjects willing to replicate it.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      There's a close tie between card and coin magic and techniques of gambling cheating. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scarne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scarne There are numerous techniques to throw dice with controlled rotation so you can be sure that one side will wind up on top or that a particular axis stays horizontal so you know two sides will never come up. This is why playing craps you have to bounce the dice off a wall. It is possible sometime to throw non-spinning dice right into the corner of the wall and the floor but if you succeed at that you will never play craps with those people. I think your problem is really close to that problem, I don't think there's anything wrong with card mechanics and such, it's using it to cheat that is wrong.
      - spacetimeuser5 2y ago
        I'd focus on coins only. There was a link on HN about some pilot study by some students, where they tried to emulate or used an actual mechanical hand or something similar flipping coins. How? (though not in my protocol) For example, attaching a magnetic levitation system under the surface with the flipper unaware of it, and upon switching the current on through the system, the coin levitates probably on its edge. And it is a problem for the flippers and inference makers for not being able to arrange for such option.
  - spacetimeuser5 2y ago
    Consider the law of induction, according to which the fact that monkeys flipped coins for gozzilions of years with an average probability 0.5 doesn't mean they'd flip it with the same probability tomorrow.

MatthiasPortzel 2y ago

No but I would read a sci-fi short story about someone who figured out how to land a coin on its edge, similar to https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/angel-of-red-and-white https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/angel-of-red-and-white

spacetimeuser5 2y ago
ok, won't read neither write it then.