5 ms·

I don't understand why you can't just get the police to put them in a van and take them to the airport, and put them on a flight back to their home country or w

I don't understand why you can't just get the police to put them in a van and take them to the airport, and put them on a flight back to their home country or wherever they live.

masfuerte 2y ago
In other cases I've read about the sailors are owed substantial back wages and they know that if they abandon the ship they definitely won't get paid.
- CryptoBanker 2y ago
  The article makes it seem like they never get paid regardless
notaustinpowers 2y ago
It's most likely due to visa and immigration laws. When a vessel is docked in a port, they are able to disembark and operate under a special visa that lasts the duration of their vessel's stay, and they are required to leave with the vessel when it disembarks from the port. Since the vessel has left the port, their visas are no longer applicable and they would be arrested if they left the vessel.
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  Which is what parent is asking: why can’t they just get deported?
  - notaustinpowers 2y ago
    Because even deportation has legal hoops you have to jump through. If they get deported, even willingly, what happens when they come back to American on another vessel? Their special visas to disembark while at port would most likely not be approved if they have a big "deported" note on it. On top of that, a lot of these workers are kept in exploitative working conditions and are owed thousands of dollars in backpay. Leaving the vessel to be willingly deported effectively negates any chance of actually being paid and can kill your career right then and there. I highly doubt that's a risk any of them are willing to take.
- superb_dev 2y ago
  I think op is asking why we can't just wave our hands here, legally. Obviously they don't have a valid visa, but these are extenuating circumstances. Just take them to an airport and send them home. If they're chaperoned the whole time, who really cares if they have a valid visa while traveling to the airport?
paxys 2y ago
Who is going to man the ship if that happens?
Goronmon 2y ago
I don't understand why you can't just get the police to put them in a van and take them to the airport, and put them on a flight back to their home country or wherever they live. I'm not sure I want to give local police the power to put whoever they want on a plane to "wherever".
- krisoft 2y ago
  > I'm not sure I want to give local police the power to put whoever they want on a plane to "wherever". I presumed that the proposal is a shorthand for "why the police can't offer to escort them to the airport and let them board an airplane to a destination of their own choosing". As in the police would be there to make sure they don't "abscond" in the country without a valid visa, but the seafarers can get back to their family. (if they so choose)
  - lazide 2y ago
    Why would the local police want to get involved in (and hence ‘responsible’) for that kind of diplomatic cluster fuck?
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > and let them board an airplane to a destination of their own choosing". As in the police would be there to make sure they don't "abscond" Maybe being overly pedantic, but "destination of their own choosing" won't work. Airlines will refuse to board, because they're generally responsible for the costs of flying that person back if they're refused entry at the destination (if their due diligence wasn't done re passport/visa, rather than an immigration official's decision).
    - krisoft 2y ago
      > Maybe being overly pedantic Not just maybe. I was talking from the perspective of the interaction between the stranded mariners and the police. I emphasised the "destination of their own choosing" because it appeared that the comment I was responding to had a misunderstanding. They thought the proposal is that the police kidnaps the mariners and sends them to wherever the police wants to. I was clarifying that it would happen in consultation with them, and the mariners would select the destination. That does not mean that there would be no other constrains on them flying. Presumably they would choose their home country as their destination. Or some other country where they have a right to be. But if you choose to be pedantic why did you only mention the "visa requirement" constrain? Why not list all the others. To just name a few: Their destination has to be a real place. They cannot fly to Narnia, or Middle Earth, or La-La Land. Their destination has to have a continuous atmosphere from their departure airport. Otherwise the airplane can't fly. So for example they cannot choose the Sea of Tranquility on the Moon. It has to have an airport. So Monaco is out right away. It has to be existing on the day they depart. So they cannot fly to Pangea, nor to the USSR. Because they don't exist anymore. It also has to be a place where there are scheduled flights to. So they cannot choose McMurdo Station either. And yeah, visa requirements too.
krisoft 2y ago
Who will keep the bilge pumps of the ship running? They are not just flees on the back of a dog. They are keeping the ship working, afloat and in good condition. (as good as it can be, given the circumstances) I understand that the situation is less than ideal, and i hope they get a crew change at the end of whatever contract period they have. And I sure hope their wages are being paid correctly. The mobile phone situation is really bad too. I hope that got rectified since. Imagine if they haven't hit the bridge. They would be most probably still on the same ship doing the same job. Just the ship would be in some other patch of water. Would you still describe them as "stuck onboard" if that were the case?

I don't understand why you can't just get the police to put them in a van and take them to the airport, and put them on a flight back to their home country or wherever they live.

masfuerte 2y ago

In other cases I've read about the sailors are owed substantial back wages and they know that if they abandon the ship they definitely won't get paid.

CryptoBanker 2y ago
The article makes it seem like they never get paid regardless

notaustinpowers 2y ago

It's most likely due to visa and immigration laws. When a vessel is docked in a port, they are able to disembark and operate under a special visa that lasts the duration of their vessel's stay, and they are required to leave with the vessel when it disembarks from the port. Since the vessel has left the port, their visas are no longer applicable and they would be arrested if they left the vessel.

wodenokoto 2y ago
Which is what parent is asking: why can’t they just get deported?
- notaustinpowers 2y ago
  Because even deportation has legal hoops you have to jump through. If they get deported, even willingly, what happens when they come back to American on another vessel? Their special visas to disembark while at port would most likely not be approved if they have a big "deported" note on it. On top of that, a lot of these workers are kept in exploitative working conditions and are owed thousands of dollars in backpay. Leaving the vessel to be willingly deported effectively negates any chance of actually being paid and can kill your career right then and there. I highly doubt that's a risk any of them are willing to take.
superb_dev 2y ago
I think op is asking why we can't just wave our hands here, legally. Obviously they don't have a valid visa, but these are extenuating circumstances. Just take them to an airport and send them home. If they're chaperoned the whole time, who really cares if they have a valid visa while traveling to the airport?

paxys 2y ago

Who is going to man the ship if that happens?

Goronmon 2y ago

I don't understand why you can't just get the police to put them in a van and take them to the airport, and put them on a flight back to their home country or wherever they live. I'm not sure I want to give local police the power to put whoever they want on a plane to "wherever".

krisoft 2y ago
> I'm not sure I want to give local police the power to put whoever they want on a plane to "wherever". I presumed that the proposal is a shorthand for "why the police can't offer to escort them to the airport and let them board an airplane to a destination of their own choosing". As in the police would be there to make sure they don't "abscond" in the country without a valid visa, but the seafarers can get back to their family. (if they so choose)
- lazide 2y ago
  Why would the local police want to get involved in (and hence ‘responsible’) for that kind of diplomatic cluster fuck?
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > and let them board an airplane to a destination of their own choosing". As in the police would be there to make sure they don't "abscond" Maybe being overly pedantic, but "destination of their own choosing" won't work. Airlines will refuse to board, because they're generally responsible for the costs of flying that person back if they're refused entry at the destination (if their due diligence wasn't done re passport/visa, rather than an immigration official's decision).
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > Maybe being overly pedantic Not just maybe. I was talking from the perspective of the interaction between the stranded mariners and the police. I emphasised the "destination of their own choosing" because it appeared that the comment I was responding to had a misunderstanding. They thought the proposal is that the police kidnaps the mariners and sends them to wherever the police wants to. I was clarifying that it would happen in consultation with them, and the mariners would select the destination. That does not mean that there would be no other constrains on them flying. Presumably they would choose their home country as their destination. Or some other country where they have a right to be. But if you choose to be pedantic why did you only mention the "visa requirement" constrain? Why not list all the others. To just name a few: Their destination has to be a real place. They cannot fly to Narnia, or Middle Earth, or La-La Land. Their destination has to have a continuous atmosphere from their departure airport. Otherwise the airplane can't fly. So for example they cannot choose the Sea of Tranquility on the Moon. It has to have an airport. So Monaco is out right away. It has to be existing on the day they depart. So they cannot fly to Pangea, nor to the USSR. Because they don't exist anymore. It also has to be a place where there are scheduled flights to. So they cannot choose McMurdo Station either. And yeah, visa requirements too.

krisoft 2y ago

Who will keep the bilge pumps of the ship running? They are not just flees on the back of a dog. They are keeping the ship working, afloat and in good condition. (as good as it can be, given the circumstances) I understand that the situation is less than ideal, and i hope they get a crew change at the end of whatever contract period they have. And I sure hope their wages are being paid correctly. The mobile phone situation is really bad too. I hope that got rectified since. Imagine if they haven't hit the bridge. They would be most probably still on the same ship doing the same job. Just the ship would be in some other patch of water. Would you still describe them as "stuck onboard" if that were the case?