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I'm tired of Russian propaganda. Euro maidan was right, just ask some Ukrainians.

ein0p 2y ago
I’m tired of Deep State propaganda. Overthrowing the government people democratically voted for is never “right”. Just ask East Ukrainians who elected the president who was later overthrown, and then refused to go along with this bullshit. Or are they not “Ukrainians”?
- tharmas 2y ago
  I agree with you. What has me worried is not the fact that people have been brainwashed by propaganda but their refusal or inability to see the other side of the argument. This intransigence goes right up to the highest levels of Western governments. The War in Ukraine is lost yet leaders refuse to accept that and negotiate a peace deal. Not only that, they are trying to escalate the situation by saying its ok to use Western supplied weapons to attack targets in Russia. Russia is a nuclear power for God's sakes. This is reckless behavior. Irresponsible. Even Thatcher had the wisdom to negotiate with the I.R.A.
  - recursivedoubts 2y ago
    it would make sense if your intention was to depopulate the ukraine & maybe buy it up on the cheap (all wars are banker wars?) i can't make much sense of it beyond that
    - tharmas 2y ago
      Well, European elites are keen to get their hands on Western Ukrainian agricultural land. Agriculture in Western Europe is heavily subsidized. So there is that. Eastern Ukraine is mostly Industrial and would likely lose out to more modern Industry in Europe. So less incentive for Eastern (Russian speaking) Ukrainians to join Europe. Which was one reason why Yanukovich reneged on signing the EU Association Agreement as his political base was mostly in Eastern Ukraine. And the deal was quite "neoliberal", meaning Eastern Ukrainian Industry was going to get shut down without much economic relief. The other was pressure from Putin and the fact that the Russians offered a very attractive counter offer of a deal.
      - snowpid 2y ago
        You know most Russian speaking Ukrainians don't speak it anymore. Why? They are dead. Or refuse it because of Russian bombs. Ukrainians wanted a decent life. Putin didn't like it. So as a consequence he started the war.
        ein0p 2y ago
        60% fewer civilians died in this conflict in 2+ years than in Gaza in 6 months. Official UN data. Also, at least half those killed are killed by Ukrainian artillery. Ukrainian officials are on video calling them non-human, biological waste, “unnecessary”, and calling for ethnic cleansing of Donbass of its 4 million inhabitants. You can easily find this on YouTube. All because these people did not agree to go along with Victoria Nuland’s coup. Moreover, Russia has (thus far) accepted 3M+ Ukrainian refugees. There’s a flash mob on TikTok of them tearing up their Ukrainian passports and showing off Russian ones.
        mopsi 2y ago
        > Official UN data. Which by their own admission is incomplete and of very poor quality, because no-one lets them count the dead in places like Mariupol. The picture is as muddy as with Jews in Europe during the WWII. Some are refugees, many are unaccounted, and nobody knows where they are. Probably in those mass graves Russians have dug everywhere.
        ein0p 2y ago
        [flagged]
        racional 2y ago
        And never watch any interviews with people from Mariupol, which would tell you that the vast majority of killed civilians were killed by Ukrainian artillery and snipers. I wonder who made those videos, and who they're affiliated with. And also the persons speaking in them. Perhaps you'd like to tell us?
- snowpid 2y ago
  They are dead. Killed by Russian bombs. Also which Deep State. Are you thinking US government is the only state in the world?
  - ein0p 2y ago
    Actually no, they’re still right where they were. It’s just that nobody is interested in what they have to say.
    - snowpid 2y ago
      one of them is just the president of Ukraine. Clearly nobody listening to him.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        You clearly know absolutely nothing about the conflict. Meanwhile my Ukrainian (and pro-Russian) wife from Kharkov is just shaking her head when I show her your embarrassing posts.
        snowpid 2y ago
        You mean I know nothing about the conflict because I insist on the observation that many native Russian speaking Ukrainians refuse to speak Russian because of the war, including the Russian speaking Ukrainian president? Maybe your wife does not know much about the conflict. How does she feel about glide bombs on her home town, on civilian buildings? What does she think why Ukrainians call the town Charkiv and not Charkow? Can you tell me the answer, oh wise man of conspiracy theories.

I’m tired of Deep State propaganda. Overthrowing the government people democratically voted for is never “right”. Just ask East Ukrainians who elected the president who was later overthrown, and then refused to go along with this bullshit. Or are they not “Ukrainians”?

tharmas 2y ago
I agree with you. What has me worried is not the fact that people have been brainwashed by propaganda but their refusal or inability to see the other side of the argument. This intransigence goes right up to the highest levels of Western governments. The War in Ukraine is lost yet leaders refuse to accept that and negotiate a peace deal. Not only that, they are trying to escalate the situation by saying its ok to use Western supplied weapons to attack targets in Russia. Russia is a nuclear power for God's sakes. This is reckless behavior. Irresponsible. Even Thatcher had the wisdom to negotiate with the I.R.A.
- recursivedoubts 2y ago
  it would make sense if your intention was to depopulate the ukraine & maybe buy it up on the cheap (all wars are banker wars?) i can't make much sense of it beyond that
  - tharmas 2y ago
    Well, European elites are keen to get their hands on Western Ukrainian agricultural land. Agriculture in Western Europe is heavily subsidized. So there is that. Eastern Ukraine is mostly Industrial and would likely lose out to more modern Industry in Europe. So less incentive for Eastern (Russian speaking) Ukrainians to join Europe. Which was one reason why Yanukovich reneged on signing the EU Association Agreement as his political base was mostly in Eastern Ukraine. And the deal was quite "neoliberal", meaning Eastern Ukrainian Industry was going to get shut down without much economic relief. The other was pressure from Putin and the fact that the Russians offered a very attractive counter offer of a deal.
    - snowpid 2y ago
      You know most Russian speaking Ukrainians don't speak it anymore. Why? They are dead. Or refuse it because of Russian bombs. Ukrainians wanted a decent life. Putin didn't like it. So as a consequence he started the war.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        60% fewer civilians died in this conflict in 2+ years than in Gaza in 6 months. Official UN data. Also, at least half those killed are killed by Ukrainian artillery. Ukrainian officials are on video calling them non-human, biological waste, “unnecessary”, and calling for ethnic cleansing of Donbass of its 4 million inhabitants. You can easily find this on YouTube. All because these people did not agree to go along with Victoria Nuland’s coup. Moreover, Russia has (thus far) accepted 3M+ Ukrainian refugees. There’s a flash mob on TikTok of them tearing up their Ukrainian passports and showing off Russian ones.
        mopsi 2y ago
        > Official UN data. Which by their own admission is incomplete and of very poor quality, because no-one lets them count the dead in places like Mariupol. The picture is as muddy as with Jews in Europe during the WWII. Some are refugees, many are unaccounted, and nobody knows where they are. Probably in those mass graves Russians have dug everywhere.
        ein0p 2y ago
        [flagged]
        racional 2y ago
        And never watch any interviews with people from Mariupol, which would tell you that the vast majority of killed civilians were killed by Ukrainian artillery and snipers. I wonder who made those videos, and who they're affiliated with. And also the persons speaking in them. Perhaps you'd like to tell us?
snowpid 2y ago
They are dead. Killed by Russian bombs. Also which Deep State. Are you thinking US government is the only state in the world?
- ein0p 2y ago
  Actually no, they’re still right where they were. It’s just that nobody is interested in what they have to say.
  - snowpid 2y ago
    one of them is just the president of Ukraine. Clearly nobody listening to him.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      You clearly know absolutely nothing about the conflict. Meanwhile my Ukrainian (and pro-Russian) wife from Kharkov is just shaking her head when I show her your embarrassing posts.
      - snowpid 2y ago
        You mean I know nothing about the conflict because I insist on the observation that many native Russian speaking Ukrainians refuse to speak Russian because of the war, including the Russian speaking Ukrainian president? Maybe your wife does not know much about the conflict. How does she feel about glide bombs on her home town, on civilian buildings? What does she think why Ukrainians call the town Charkiv and not Charkow? Can you tell me the answer, oh wise man of conspiracy theories.