4 ms·
The 'Deep State' (political lobbying in Washington)
- bell-cot 2y agoIANAL (not a Lobbyist) to actually know...but the article sounds very depressingly credible.
- ein0p 2y agoWhere by “work on behalf of pro-Kremlin politicians in Ukraine” they mean the legally elected president of Ukraine whom the US Deep State, personified by Victoria “fuck the EU” Nuland overthrew. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
- snowpid 2y agoI'm tired of Russian propaganda. Euro maidan was right, just ask some Ukrainians.
- ein0p 2y agoI’m tired of Deep State propaganda. Overthrowing the government people democratically voted for is never “right”. Just ask East Ukrainians who elected the president who was later overthrown, and then refused to go along with this bullshit. Or are they not “Ukrainians”?
- tharmas 2y agoI agree with you. What has me worried is not the fact that people have been brainwashed by propaganda but their refusal or inability to see the other side of the argument. This intransigence goes right up to the highest levels of Western governments. The War in Ukraine is lost yet leaders refuse to accept that and negotiate a peace deal. Not only that, they are trying to escalate the situation by saying its ok to use Western supplied weapons to attack targets in Russia. Russia is a nuclear power for God's sakes. This is reckless behavior. Irresponsible. Even Thatcher had the wisdom to negotiate with the I.R.A.
- recursivedoubts 2y agoit would make sense if your intention was to depopulate the ukraine & maybe buy it up on the cheap (all wars are banker wars?) i can't make much sense of it beyond that
- tharmas 2y agoWell, European elites are keen to get their hands on Western Ukrainian agricultural land. Agriculture in Western Europe is heavily subsidized. So there is that. Eastern Ukraine is mostly Industrial and would likely lose out to more modern Industry in Europe. So less incentive for Eastern (Russian speaking) Ukrainians to join Europe. Which was one reason why Yanukovich reneged on signing the EU Association Agreement as his political base was mostly in Eastern Ukraine. And the deal was quite "neoliberal", meaning Eastern Ukrainian Industry was going to get shut down without much economic relief. The other was pressure from Putin and the fact that the Russians offered a very attractive counter offer of a deal.
- snowpid 2y agoYou know most Russian speaking Ukrainians don't speak it anymore. Why? They are dead. Or refuse it because of Russian bombs. Ukrainians wanted a decent life. Putin didn't like it. So as a consequence he started the war.
- ein0p 2y ago60% fewer civilians died in this conflict in 2+ years than in Gaza in 6 months. Official UN data. Also, at least half those killed are killed by Ukrainian artillery. Ukrainian officials are on video calling them non-human, biological waste, “unnecessary”, and calling for ethnic cleansing of Donbass of its 4 million inhabitants. You can easily find this on YouTube. All because these people did not agree to go along with Victoria Nuland’s coup. Moreover, Russia has (thus far) accepted 3M+ Ukrainian refugees. There’s a flash mob on TikTok of them tearing up their Ukrainian passports and showing off Russian ones.
- snowpid 2y agoThey are dead. Killed by Russian bombs. Also which Deep State. Are you thinking US government is the only state in the world?
- ein0p 2y agoActually no, they’re still right where they were. It’s just that nobody is interested in what they have to say.
- snowpid 2y agoone of them is just the president of Ukraine. Clearly nobody listening to him.
- ein0p 2y agoYou clearly know absolutely nothing about the conflict. Meanwhile my Ukrainian (and pro-Russian) wife from Kharkov is just shaking her head when I show her your embarrassing posts.
- snowpid 2y agoYou mean I know nothing about the conflict because I insist on the observation that many native Russian speaking Ukrainians refuse to speak Russian because of the war, including the Russian speaking Ukrainian president? Maybe your wife does not know much about the conflict. How does she feel about glide bombs on her home town, on civilian buildings? What does she think why Ukrainians call the town Charkiv and not Charkow? Can you tell me the answer, oh wise man of conspiracy theories.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y agohttps://archive.is/mJsP2 https://archive.is/mJsP2
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago"What they don’t say is that the definition of the deep state—an entrenched force that wields power regardless of the administration in the White House—now fits the business of lobbying better than it does the faceless bureaucracy." The earliest notion of DeepState I know: US Gov's compulsion to snoop on the most possible people = US Gov's hydra of surveillance agencies/divisions + it's many partnerships with state & local govs to share data (mostly upward) and help the lesser govs build their own hydras. This is was DeepState referred to, before DS got retooled into a conspiracy theory tag. Was DS ever a catchall for faceless bureaucracies?
- gumby 2y agoI have been surprised at the acceptance of the phrase "deep state" (regardless of your opinion of the topic) because it simply sounds like a foreign phrase to the English-speaking ear. In the US, and in English in general, the use of "State" to talk about government is largely confined to political scientists and the odd reader of Leviathan. In popular culture, terms like "bureaucrat" are more typical, oftne with "unelected" tacked on the front. And of course in the US and Australia, at least, "state" is generally used for major subnational government divisions ("state of Texas"). On the other hand, the popular use of "state" as an actor or participant in its own right comes from 19th century revolutionary theory, especially communism. So countries heavily influenced by those movements (russia and former Warsaw-pact bloc, China, even Turkey, et al) use this construct naturally. So it's fascinating that this loan-word has become popular in English.
- coolhand2120 2y agoSeparation of church and state? Charge of the state? State owned broadcaster? Maybe it's more common than you think.
- AmpsterMan 2y agoThe OP is right that in everyday talk state is not used in the general sense of "government"
- AmpsterMan 2y agoMy own tin foil hat theory is that "state" in that usage entered into common English use (in U.S.) because of foreign actors. Rush Limbaugh, et al. have been talking about "deep state" long before it entered common use around the 2020 election.
- water9 2y agoDeep state is the CIA and FBI Who have gone rogue because they no longer are at the purview of the president. They are unelected and they need to be dismantled before it’s too late. The Texas Rangers were a state form of the FBI and that power needs to go back to the state. There is no need for an FBI and the CIA causes way more problems than they solve around the world
- tharmas 2y agoThere's an old joke that when a new President is elected the Security Services take the new President into a room were there's a projector showing a film of the Kennedy assassination but from a different angle from the Zapruder film. At the end, the Security Services representative turns to the new President and asks "any questions?".