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Does anyone remember when Ross Perot ran for President? It would have been interesting - and hopefully beneficial - to have someone from outside the close circl

Does anyone remember when Ross Perot ran for President? It would have been interesting - and hopefully beneficial - to have someone from outside the close circle of US politics in the White House. So what happened? The establishment threatened his daughter - quite openly - and Perot dropped out of the race. US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. Which brings us to Donald Trump (who is the real subject of TFA). He is honestly an unpleasant, narcissitic person. However, he huge ego makes him immune to the kind of intimidation that drove Perot away. He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible.

taylodl 2y ago
Your underlying assumption is "any change is good change." That assumption is incorrect. I'm not saying we don't need change, but the kind of change Trump brings would make things worse.
- bradley13 2y ago
  Nope, I didn't say that. Read through again. FWIW, I'm not in the US, so I'm just observing. It's sort of like watching neighbors have a fight involving matches and gasoline. You have to wonder if they're going to set the whole neighborhood on fire.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. To US speakers of English that sentiment conveys the implicit assumption that change is needed, and that any kind of change is desirable over no change at all. As far as whether we're going to set the neighborhood on fire, yeah, I have the same concerns. It's hard to tell whether we're dealing with an extremely vocal minority who will be silenced quickly should they become physically belligerent, or are they more widespread? If Trump is found guilty in the trial the jury is deliberating on, then we may find out sooner. Otherwise, we may have to wait until November to find out. I would have never believed I'd see the day where Americans are pining for a dictator, but here we are.
    - bradley13 2y ago
      Fair enough. I meant it in the sense of: change will happen, if he is reelected. But that kind of change is unlikely to please anyone. Actually, I don't think he will be a dictator. That would require loyal, competent underlings. He doesn't seem to have a lot of those. Anyway, the swamp will drag him down.
      - taylodl 2y ago
        I agree with you on that point, change will happen if Trump is elected.
rat87 2y ago
> US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. It is a lot more corrupt after Trump. Trump is incredibly corrupt more then any other president we've had. Even after one term we started resembling the corruption in those third world countries where people have to bribe the dictator to get anything done. I hate to think what would happen with another term. > He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He didn't achieve much because he doesn't care about anyone other then himself and doesn't know anything about policy and doesn't want to learn. Other than authoritarian corrupt and or xenophobic executive orders. And cutting some rich people's taxes. At least he didn't start any wars over Twitter. Yet(hopefully he doesn't get the chance to do so). He's not able to accomplish anything positive only destruction and ruin and corruption. Compared to a good president like Biden who actually does care and actually know something about policy. And who passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill and a vast environmental infrastructure bill(IRA) while Trump kept on announcing infrastructure week till it became a Washington in joke. A lot of people in what you would call to establishment are terrified because of the damage she has already caused to the country and the worst damage he would cause if he was elected again. > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. So in other words you want to destroy our nice society to play joker or similar accelerationist nonsense?

taylodl 2y ago

Your underlying assumption is "any change is good change." That assumption is incorrect. I'm not saying we don't need change, but the kind of change Trump brings would make things worse.

bradley13 2y ago
Nope, I didn't say that. Read through again. FWIW, I'm not in the US, so I'm just observing. It's sort of like watching neighbors have a fight involving matches and gasoline. You have to wonder if they're going to set the whole neighborhood on fire.
- taylodl 2y ago
  > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. To US speakers of English that sentiment conveys the implicit assumption that change is needed, and that any kind of change is desirable over no change at all. As far as whether we're going to set the neighborhood on fire, yeah, I have the same concerns. It's hard to tell whether we're dealing with an extremely vocal minority who will be silenced quickly should they become physically belligerent, or are they more widespread? If Trump is found guilty in the trial the jury is deliberating on, then we may find out sooner. Otherwise, we may have to wait until November to find out. I would have never believed I'd see the day where Americans are pining for a dictator, but here we are.
  - bradley13 2y ago
    Fair enough. I meant it in the sense of: change will happen, if he is reelected. But that kind of change is unlikely to please anyone. Actually, I don't think he will be a dictator. That would require loyal, competent underlings. He doesn't seem to have a lot of those. Anyway, the swamp will drag him down.
    - taylodl 2y ago
      I agree with you on that point, change will happen if Trump is elected.

rat87 2y ago

> US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. It is a lot more corrupt after Trump. Trump is incredibly corrupt more then any other president we've had. Even after one term we started resembling the corruption in those third world countries where people have to bribe the dictator to get anything done. I hate to think what would happen with another term. > He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He didn't achieve much because he doesn't care about anyone other then himself and doesn't know anything about policy and doesn't want to learn. Other than authoritarian corrupt and or xenophobic executive orders. And cutting some rich people's taxes. At least he didn't start any wars over Twitter. Yet(hopefully he doesn't get the chance to do so). He's not able to accomplish anything positive only destruction and ruin and corruption. Compared to a good president like Biden who actually does care and actually know something about policy. And who passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill and a vast environmental infrastructure bill(IRA) while Trump kept on announcing infrastructure week till it became a Washington in joke. A lot of people in what you would call to establishment are terrified because of the damage she has already caused to the country and the worst damage he would cause if he was elected again. > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. So in other words you want to destroy our nice society to play joker or similar accelerationist nonsense?