5 ms·

Why Musk is likely the most important business player in U.S. politics

8 points by hn1986 2y ago

bradley13 2y ago
Does anyone remember when Ross Perot ran for President? It would have been interesting - and hopefully beneficial - to have someone from outside the close circle of US politics in the White House. So what happened? The establishment threatened his daughter - quite openly - and Perot dropped out of the race. US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. Which brings us to Donald Trump (who is the real subject of TFA). He is honestly an unpleasant, narcissitic person. However, he huge ego makes him immune to the kind of intimidation that drove Perot away. He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible.
- taylodl 2y ago
  Your underlying assumption is "any change is good change." That assumption is incorrect. I'm not saying we don't need change, but the kind of change Trump brings would make things worse.
  - bradley13 2y ago
    Nope, I didn't say that. Read through again. FWIW, I'm not in the US, so I'm just observing. It's sort of like watching neighbors have a fight involving matches and gasoline. You have to wonder if they're going to set the whole neighborhood on fire.
    - taylodl 2y ago
      > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. To US speakers of English that sentiment conveys the implicit assumption that change is needed, and that any kind of change is desirable over no change at all. As far as whether we're going to set the neighborhood on fire, yeah, I have the same concerns. It's hard to tell whether we're dealing with an extremely vocal minority who will be silenced quickly should they become physically belligerent, or are they more widespread? If Trump is found guilty in the trial the jury is deliberating on, then we may find out sooner. Otherwise, we may have to wait until November to find out. I would have never believed I'd see the day where Americans are pining for a dictator, but here we are.
      - bradley13 2y ago
        Fair enough. I meant it in the sense of: change will happen, if he is reelected. But that kind of change is unlikely to please anyone. Actually, I don't think he will be a dictator. That would require loyal, competent underlings. He doesn't seem to have a lot of those. Anyway, the swamp will drag him down.
        taylodl 2y ago
        I agree with you on that point, change will happen if Trump is elected.
- rat87 2y ago
  > US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. It is a lot more corrupt after Trump. Trump is incredibly corrupt more then any other president we've had. Even after one term we started resembling the corruption in those third world countries where people have to bribe the dictator to get anything done. I hate to think what would happen with another term. > He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He didn't achieve much because he doesn't care about anyone other then himself and doesn't know anything about policy and doesn't want to learn. Other than authoritarian corrupt and or xenophobic executive orders. And cutting some rich people's taxes. At least he didn't start any wars over Twitter. Yet(hopefully he doesn't get the chance to do so). He's not able to accomplish anything positive only destruction and ruin and corruption. Compared to a good president like Biden who actually does care and actually know something about policy. And who passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill and a vast environmental infrastructure bill(IRA) while Trump kept on announcing infrastructure week till it became a Washington in joke. A lot of people in what you would call to establishment are terrified because of the damage she has already caused to the country and the worst damage he would cause if he was elected again. > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. So in other words you want to destroy our nice society to play joker or similar accelerationist nonsense?
taylodl 2y ago
What is Musk's end-game? Tesla's core buyers despise Trump and, rightly or wrongly, see him as a pariah. Trump supporters despise EVs. What's to be gained by publicly aligning with Trump? A man who just said a couple of days ago he wants to end all incentives for buying EVs? I wouldn't think such a public political alignment would be good for Tesla's business, and I would be concerned that this year's 1st quarter year-over-year sales slump is just the tip of the iceberg as people are now getting the message loud and clear that buying a Tesla is implicit support of Trump. Why would you align yourself with such a polarizing political figure? What is Elon's strategy?
- xenospn 2y ago
  Same reason Peter Thiel (and other openly gay conservatives) donate to people who advocate to outlaw gay marriage, or even being gay in general. They gain other things that are much more important to them.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    What is Elon gaining that he doesn't already have? Being in Trump's orbit makes you a right-wing media darling, but Elon already has that. Biden has already imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs.
- Zigurd 2y ago
  He's just some guy. Every thudding gaffe - most recently demanding Yann LeCun say how many papers he has published, but stretching all the way back to the strange slander of a rescue diver taking school children out of a flooded cave - shows he can be utterly uninformed about things that should be front of mind for him. You and I have probably thought things at least as dumb as "I could run this 2nd tier but still influential social network better than they can." but we could not skip dd and sign a binding agreement to buy it because someone would have checked our bank balance.
bell-cot 2y ago
If you're old enough, and not yet reduced to living-in-the-moment drooling, you notice that most political "journalism" is this sort of ephemeral click-bait. Full of weak but button-pushing reasons why the world is about to change in whatever way the author's theory du jour claims that it will...and somehow stay that way. But in a day, or week, or maybe a bit longer, it'll be just another page of bird-cage liner. (For a while, back around 2000, I kept my backissues of a very upscale, expensive, and "educated" weekly newsmagazine, to see if any of their weekly columnists could usefully predict the future. Hahahaha - NOPE.)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

8 points by hn1986 2y ago

Does anyone remember when Ross Perot ran for President? It would have been interesting - and hopefully beneficial - to have someone from outside the close circle of US politics in the White House. So what happened? The establishment threatened his daughter - quite openly - and Perot dropped out of the race. US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. Which brings us to Donald Trump (who is the real subject of TFA). He is honestly an unpleasant, narcissitic person. However, he huge ego makes him immune to the kind of intimidation that drove Perot away. He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible.

taylodl 2y ago
Your underlying assumption is "any change is good change." That assumption is incorrect. I'm not saying we don't need change, but the kind of change Trump brings would make things worse.
- bradley13 2y ago
  Nope, I didn't say that. Read through again. FWIW, I'm not in the US, so I'm just observing. It's sort of like watching neighbors have a fight involving matches and gasoline. You have to wonder if they're going to set the whole neighborhood on fire.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. To US speakers of English that sentiment conveys the implicit assumption that change is needed, and that any kind of change is desirable over no change at all. As far as whether we're going to set the neighborhood on fire, yeah, I have the same concerns. It's hard to tell whether we're dealing with an extremely vocal minority who will be silenced quickly should they become physically belligerent, or are they more widespread? If Trump is found guilty in the trial the jury is deliberating on, then we may find out sooner. Otherwise, we may have to wait until November to find out. I would have never believed I'd see the day where Americans are pining for a dictator, but here we are.
    - bradley13 2y ago
      Fair enough. I meant it in the sense of: change will happen, if he is reelected. But that kind of change is unlikely to please anyone. Actually, I don't think he will be a dictator. That would require loyal, competent underlings. He doesn't seem to have a lot of those. Anyway, the swamp will drag him down.
      - taylodl 2y ago
        I agree with you on that point, change will happen if Trump is elected.
rat87 2y ago
> US politics is corrupt. Not quite as blatantly as in third world countries, but nonetheless corrupt. It is a lot more corrupt after Trump. Trump is incredibly corrupt more then any other president we've had. Even after one term we started resembling the corruption in those third world countries where people have to bribe the dictator to get anything done. I hate to think what would happen with another term. > He didn't achieve a lot in his first term. However, the way the establishment is pulling out all the stops to damage his chances in the coming election? They must be worried. He didn't achieve much because he doesn't care about anyone other then himself and doesn't know anything about policy and doesn't want to learn. Other than authoritarian corrupt and or xenophobic executive orders. And cutting some rich people's taxes. At least he didn't start any wars over Twitter. Yet(hopefully he doesn't get the chance to do so). He's not able to accomplish anything positive only destruction and ruin and corruption. Compared to a good president like Biden who actually does care and actually know something about policy. And who passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill and a vast environmental infrastructure bill(IRA) while Trump kept on announcing infrastructure week till it became a Washington in joke. A lot of people in what you would call to establishment are terrified because of the damage she has already caused to the country and the worst damage he would cause if he was elected again. > He's not the change anyone wants, but he may be the only kind of change possible. So in other words you want to destroy our nice society to play joker or similar accelerationist nonsense?

taylodl 2y ago

What is Musk's end-game? Tesla's core buyers despise Trump and, rightly or wrongly, see him as a pariah. Trump supporters despise EVs. What's to be gained by publicly aligning with Trump? A man who just said a couple of days ago he wants to end all incentives for buying EVs? I wouldn't think such a public political alignment would be good for Tesla's business, and I would be concerned that this year's 1st quarter year-over-year sales slump is just the tip of the iceberg as people are now getting the message loud and clear that buying a Tesla is implicit support of Trump. Why would you align yourself with such a polarizing political figure? What is Elon's strategy?

xenospn 2y ago
Same reason Peter Thiel (and other openly gay conservatives) donate to people who advocate to outlaw gay marriage, or even being gay in general. They gain other things that are much more important to them.
- taylodl 2y ago
  What is Elon gaining that he doesn't already have? Being in Trump's orbit makes you a right-wing media darling, but Elon already has that. Biden has already imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs.
Zigurd 2y ago
He's just some guy. Every thudding gaffe - most recently demanding Yann LeCun say how many papers he has published, but stretching all the way back to the strange slander of a rescue diver taking school children out of a flooded cave - shows he can be utterly uninformed about things that should be front of mind for him. You and I have probably thought things at least as dumb as "I could run this 2nd tier but still influential social network better than they can." but we could not skip dd and sign a binding agreement to buy it because someone would have checked our bank balance.

bell-cot 2y ago

If you're old enough, and not yet reduced to living-in-the-moment drooling, you notice that most political "journalism" is this sort of ephemeral click-bait. Full of weak but button-pushing reasons why the world is about to change in whatever way the author's theory du jour claims that it will...and somehow stay that way. But in a day, or week, or maybe a bit longer, it'll be just another page of bird-cage liner. (For a while, back around 2000, I kept my backissues of a very upscale, expensive, and "educated" weekly newsmagazine, to see if any of their weekly columnists could usefully predict the future. Hahahaha - NOPE.)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]