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There's no other solution to this problem other than making airbnb-type property investments unprofitable. I.e. heavily incentivize renovating/building and sel

by m000 2y ago

There's no other solution to this problem other than making airbnb-type property investments unprofitable. I.e. heavily incentivize renovating/building and selling properties to individuals/families. Mildly incentivize renovating/building and putting up for long-term rental. Heavily disincentivize accumulating unused properties and short-term rentals. And no, the market won't properly regulate itself. That should be pretty obvious at this point.

msh 2y ago
Or require that the owner lives in their apartment/house (and be taxliable in the place where they live). For comercial rentals, require that they are registred as businesses and taxed as such.
- karma_pharmer 2y ago
  Long-term rentals aren't typically taxed heavily. Since the tax is simply passed on to the tenant, you're just taxing the poor. Frankly, owner-occupied vs renter-occupied is not a helpful distinction here. Instead, tax short-term rentals heavily and leave year-or-more rentals as they are. Bonus feature: you don't have a massive database listing where everybody sleeps at night, including domestic violence victims, sitting around on some poorly-secured government server. If the problem is properties left empty the solution is simple: raise property taxes and credit the collected amount back on VAT/sales/income tax (depending on country) so the end result is revenue-neutral. Yes, the property tax will be passed on to tenants, but those tenants also enjoy the reduced VAT tax. For an empty apartment nobody recieves any counterbalancing benefit.
infecto 2y ago
And without tourism where will the people work? I don't like the AirBnb model but I also wonder if making those unprofitable will have further cascading effects on an economy that runs mostly on tourism.
- Gys 2y ago
  Tourism increases real estate prices and brings only low paying jobs for locals. Local workers cannot live in the city but have to travel there every day to make a little bit of money. In the end tourism is a bad way to 'built' an economy. Just like mining, same problem. Short term solutions that only a few people profit from while 'demolishing' things (culture, nature) for ever.
- m000 2y ago
  It won't be as dramatic as you might expect. People in touristic areas already have side/off-season jobs. E.g. olive cultivation and harvesting is big in the mediterranean during winter. Also, the point is not to abolish AirBnB, but rather force it to return to its roots: rent your extra room or your house while you're away. The problem right now is that AirBnB is used as a loophole to eschew the expenses of building and maintaining a real hotel, while at the same time creates aberrations to the housing market that tear the local society apart.
etrautmann 2y ago
I heard from an expat local that one major issue is that there's no inheritance tax on property, so many buildings get passed down to a few children who can't agree what to do with it and don't have money for upkeep. Those buildings will sit idle since there's no cost to leaving it, which becomes the default option.
- gpjt 2y ago
  Expat here -- yes, that's a real problem. There are even well-located commercial buildings in central Lisbon that are decaying while things like that are sorted out. I honestly don't know why they don't do short-term (as in, three year or so lease) rentals while things are sorted out. Perhaps protections (regulatory or customary) in commercial leases that make it hard to get people out once an agreement has been reached between the heirs?

by m000 2y ago

msh 2y ago

Or require that the owner lives in their apartment/house (and be taxliable in the place where they live). For comercial rentals, require that they are registred as businesses and taxed as such.

karma_pharmer 2y ago
Long-term rentals aren't typically taxed heavily. Since the tax is simply passed on to the tenant, you're just taxing the poor. Frankly, owner-occupied vs renter-occupied is not a helpful distinction here. Instead, tax short-term rentals heavily and leave year-or-more rentals as they are. Bonus feature: you don't have a massive database listing where everybody sleeps at night, including domestic violence victims, sitting around on some poorly-secured government server. If the problem is properties left empty the solution is simple: raise property taxes and credit the collected amount back on VAT/sales/income tax (depending on country) so the end result is revenue-neutral. Yes, the property tax will be passed on to tenants, but those tenants also enjoy the reduced VAT tax. For an empty apartment nobody recieves any counterbalancing benefit.

infecto 2y ago

And without tourism where will the people work? I don't like the AirBnb model but I also wonder if making those unprofitable will have further cascading effects on an economy that runs mostly on tourism.

Gys 2y ago
Tourism increases real estate prices and brings only low paying jobs for locals. Local workers cannot live in the city but have to travel there every day to make a little bit of money. In the end tourism is a bad way to 'built' an economy. Just like mining, same problem. Short term solutions that only a few people profit from while 'demolishing' things (culture, nature) for ever.
m000 2y ago
It won't be as dramatic as you might expect. People in touristic areas already have side/off-season jobs. E.g. olive cultivation and harvesting is big in the mediterranean during winter. Also, the point is not to abolish AirBnB, but rather force it to return to its roots: rent your extra room or your house while you're away. The problem right now is that AirBnB is used as a loophole to eschew the expenses of building and maintaining a real hotel, while at the same time creates aberrations to the housing market that tear the local society apart.

etrautmann 2y ago

I heard from an expat local that one major issue is that there's no inheritance tax on property, so many buildings get passed down to a few children who can't agree what to do with it and don't have money for upkeep. Those buildings will sit idle since there's no cost to leaving it, which becomes the default option.

gpjt 2y ago
Expat here -- yes, that's a real problem. There are even well-located commercial buildings in central Lisbon that are decaying while things like that are sorted out. I honestly don't know why they don't do short-term (as in, three year or so lease) rentals while things are sorted out. Perhaps protections (regulatory or customary) in commercial leases that make it hard to get people out once an agreement has been reached between the heirs?