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Fired generally implies that the employee was removed because they were not needed or they were adding negative value. It does not appear to be the case here.

Fired generally implies that the employee was removed because they were not needed or they were adding negative value. It does not appear to be the case here. Sam was given an option to continue with YC but he chose a bigger project.

rossant 2y ago
Agreed. Hard to say he was "fired" when he had a chance to stay if he decided to leave his other project. Like, "You are fired -- but you can stay if you want."
- edgyquant 2y ago
  No you’re twisting meanings here. If it was just “stay if you want” that wouldn’t be firing but saying “if you want to remain here you have to stop doing X” is firing someone full stop
  - rossant 2y ago
    So let's call it at least "conditional firing". It's not "you're fired right now -- never come back" but "you're fired unless you decide to do X".
- qarl 2y ago
  If you don't stop your side gig, we're going to have to part ways. If you don't stop spitting in the food, we're going to have to part ways. Sam didn't want to leave but had to leave.
legohead 2y ago
Fired means forced to quit employment. It's not illegal to have two jobs, they made him choose, thus firing him. I don't know why Paul is so defensive about this.
- boringg 2y ago
  Easy to understand why he would want to make it look smooth Sam has now generated an incredible amount of power since being at YC. Also most people when they part ways with an organization want to smooth any differences in case there is some way to work together in the future. Also FWIW it just sounds like PG needed someone full time at YC - Sam couldn't and thus he went elsewhere. The length of discussion on this thread is quite long given the banality of the content. Yes I realize by commenting I am adding to that length.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  > they made him choose Correct. > thus firing him Not correct, because he was free to keep the YC job by leaving OpenAI. Firing is when you aren't given a choice.
  - legohead 2y ago
    So if I go to my boss and say I have another job X, they say choose, and I say no thanks I'll keep both. What's going to happen? They essentially fired him, but with different paperwork. Paul is being pedantic.
    - m3kw9 2y ago
      Making him choose isn’t generally considered firing.
    - burnished 2y ago
      Two things: first, you could choose to prioritize the first job whereas firings are unilateral, second, consider yourself in a similar situation making a similar choice and then someone describes you leaving as being fired. You would likely feel badmouthed because of the specific connotations that word has. Oh probably worth considering that we can describe the last position you voluntarily left as being fired - you weren't going to show up anymore, so what was going to happen? You got fired but with different paperwork.
    - crazygringo 2y ago
qarl 2y ago
> or they were adding negative value It seems pretty clear that PG thought Sam was distracted from his YC job and forced him to choose. That would imply that Sam was adding negative value to YC, and PG replaced him as a result.
KaiserPro 2y ago
I was given an option to improve my performance, but I chose a different path. Look if this was dave from some no name company, there would be no real debate about what happened. Altman isn't special, he's just rich and well connected. Altman was booted from YC because he shouldn't have been making money from his side gigs. He broke the rules, and had some level of consequence. Now that he's rich, and famous, he's not going to get much consequence, unless he vaporises a lot of money from the wrong people. But then he might be WeWork cult leader good and get away with it.
- dbuder 2y ago
  In risk capital businesses making money from side deals/gigs has long been acceptable, but there has always been a line and Sam danced right over even the most generous conception of it and was duly removed.
- odyssey7 2y ago
  Sam was already rich, famous, and well-connected when he worked for YC.
  - varjag 2y ago
    He is still chasing money so clearly he doesn't see himself as rich enough.
    - aiauthoritydev 2y ago
      People do not chase money to get rich always.
deleted 2y ago
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rossant 2y ago

Agreed. Hard to say he was "fired" when he had a chance to stay if he decided to leave his other project. Like, "You are fired -- but you can stay if you want."

edgyquant 2y ago
No you’re twisting meanings here. If it was just “stay if you want” that wouldn’t be firing but saying “if you want to remain here you have to stop doing X” is firing someone full stop
- rossant 2y ago
  So let's call it at least "conditional firing". It's not "you're fired right now -- never come back" but "you're fired unless you decide to do X".
qarl 2y ago
If you don't stop your side gig, we're going to have to part ways. If you don't stop spitting in the food, we're going to have to part ways. Sam didn't want to leave but had to leave.

legohead 2y ago

Fired means forced to quit employment. It's not illegal to have two jobs, they made him choose, thus firing him. I don't know why Paul is so defensive about this.

boringg 2y ago
Easy to understand why he would want to make it look smooth Sam has now generated an incredible amount of power since being at YC. Also most people when they part ways with an organization want to smooth any differences in case there is some way to work together in the future. Also FWIW it just sounds like PG needed someone full time at YC - Sam couldn't and thus he went elsewhere. The length of discussion on this thread is quite long given the banality of the content. Yes I realize by commenting I am adding to that length.
crazygringo 2y ago
> they made him choose Correct. > thus firing him Not correct, because he was free to keep the YC job by leaving OpenAI. Firing is when you aren't given a choice.
- legohead 2y ago
  So if I go to my boss and say I have another job X, they say choose, and I say no thanks I'll keep both. What's going to happen? They essentially fired him, but with different paperwork. Paul is being pedantic.
  - m3kw9 2y ago
    Making him choose isn’t generally considered firing.
  - burnished 2y ago
    Two things: first, you could choose to prioritize the first job whereas firings are unilateral, second, consider yourself in a similar situation making a similar choice and then someone describes you leaving as being fired. You would likely feel badmouthed because of the specific connotations that word has. Oh probably worth considering that we can describe the last position you voluntarily left as being fired - you weren't going to show up anymore, so what was going to happen? You got fired but with different paperwork.
  - crazygringo 2y ago

qarl 2y ago

> or they were adding negative value It seems pretty clear that PG thought Sam was distracted from his YC job and forced him to choose. That would imply that Sam was adding negative value to YC, and PG replaced him as a result.

KaiserPro 2y ago

I was given an option to improve my performance, but I chose a different path. Look if this was dave from some no name company, there would be no real debate about what happened. Altman isn't special, he's just rich and well connected. Altman was booted from YC because he shouldn't have been making money from his side gigs. He broke the rules, and had some level of consequence. Now that he's rich, and famous, he's not going to get much consequence, unless he vaporises a lot of money from the wrong people. But then he might be WeWork cult leader good and get away with it.

dbuder 2y ago
In risk capital businesses making money from side deals/gigs has long been acceptable, but there has always been a line and Sam danced right over even the most generous conception of it and was duly removed.
odyssey7 2y ago
Sam was already rich, famous, and well-connected when he worked for YC.
- varjag 2y ago
  He is still chasing money so clearly he doesn't see himself as rich enough.
  - aiauthoritydev 2y ago
    People do not chase money to get rich always.

deleted 2y ago

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