4 ms·

Programming for long enough also changes the way you think. I suspect that's true for every nontrivial activity.

Cyphase 2y ago
The article is not just stating that running a business changes the way you think; it's explaining how it changes the way you think.
mrtksn 2y ago
I used to do paragliding, it changed how I think about security protocols and equipment. I will never drive a car without first fastening my seatbelt, I feel naked if not fastened(if you do it when paragliding, you die). I don't leave objects in unsecured state(if you do it on the hill, a wind gust messes up your day and even injures you). I trust mechanisms I understand(that's the only way you fly, you have to trust the tools and make sure the tools are in tip top condition.). I don't trust critical tools and systems without inspecting them(we did the regular maintenance of the reserve parachute ourselves and it was on us to work if needed). This is one example of course but as you said, everything you consciously go through changes you profoundly. If are into drawing with pencil, that also changes you, I'm sure. It's also why I'm worried quite a lot for people who experience everything through a screen in a bubble. I'm sure they are also profoundly changed by the experience and I'm afraid in a bad way. I suspect that's one of the main reasons people in many different cultures end up with similar constructs like "incel" - that is, the social experience through the screen is about the same everywhere and it primes the people to think about other people in a specific way.
- dig1 2y ago
  I've been diving for years and I learned that the deeper you go, there is a higher chance some of equipment can malfunction. Because of that I have to always plan or consider some backup solution. And that started to reflect on my daily activities - e.g. when I book a flight or a route, I put everything on paper, just in case all my devices die (which happened before).
  - lazide 2y ago
    Two is one, and one is none. - military, skydivers, scuba divers (apparently), swat, many first responders.
- nick7376182 2y ago
  "used to" - did you stop paragliding? I'm a mid - P3 now.
- eastbound 2y ago
  Incels are lonely first, then addicted to the screen. It’s a self-feeding relationship but a balanced teen will always have someone reaching out, while the incel is lonely. The addiction to the screen comes because there is a void (lots of interesting social studies here). By the way, public announcement: Don’t forget to ring up your relatives, knock on your neighbor’s door and spend some time doing public service talking to weird people (after evaluating the risk). It goes a long way in releasing tensions.
gotts 2y ago
How do you think programming changes it?
- tempodox 2y ago
  Doing things systematically. Making use of any information as soon as it's available to minimize the number of decisions that have to be made at once. Organizing stuff into small, composable units. To contradict a sibling comment, I do not believe the world can be controlled, or that algorithms are a solution to everything. One important element of mastering programming (a world largely of pure logic) is to recognize how it differs from our human world.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  Not OP, but I'll take a swing at this. I suspect that programming causes people to view the world as something which can be controlled with algorithms, and problems solved with algorithms. We joke about it on HN pretty regularly, how it seems like programmers have the most hubris of anyone, always thinking every problem can be neatly solved with a bit of logic.
- lazide 2y ago
  A tendency to systematize, formalize, and delegate/abstract/automate portions (or entirety) of problems IMO. A tendency to analyze and solve problems rationally. Even if unfortunately it is not at all a rational problem at the time. A tendency to (successfully) deep dive in a recursive fashion on problems. Ex: contractor is doing something weird, talk to the city inspector. City inspector refers to building code. Read building code. Work with contractor to bring up to code, or sic the appropriate regulatory authority on them. Etc. Similar to debugging something weird in someone else’s backend.
- suoduandao3 2y ago
  I've thought about this a lot. Short version, any sufficiently complex profession will have problems and associated solutions analogous to problems and solutions outside its domain. Therefore, the more deeply one understands a complex profession of that nature, the more likely one is to successfully apply lessons from that professional domain to problems outside it. Programming of course has peculiarities in that regard which color the kind of solutions one comes up with, eg a preoccupation with process and systems, linguistics, etc. For the long version you can check out my book on the subject, shameless plug: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henningsen-ebook/dp/B097N7QT47/ref= https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henni...
mmarian 2y ago
I've become a lot more obsessed about thinks making sense logically since I became a software engineer.
m463 2y ago
Hmm.. is it the same? I think some activities lead to internal focused changes, others face outwards. For me things like programming tend towards mostly affect my internal landscape, and something like dating would make me look outwards. (mostly)

The article is not just stating that running a business changes the way you think; it's explaining how it changes the way you think.

mrtksn 2y ago

I used to do paragliding, it changed how I think about security protocols and equipment. I will never drive a car without first fastening my seatbelt, I feel naked if not fastened(if you do it when paragliding, you die). I don't leave objects in unsecured state(if you do it on the hill, a wind gust messes up your day and even injures you). I trust mechanisms I understand(that's the only way you fly, you have to trust the tools and make sure the tools are in tip top condition.). I don't trust critical tools and systems without inspecting them(we did the regular maintenance of the reserve parachute ourselves and it was on us to work if needed). This is one example of course but as you said, everything you consciously go through changes you profoundly. If are into drawing with pencil, that also changes you, I'm sure. It's also why I'm worried quite a lot for people who experience everything through a screen in a bubble. I'm sure they are also profoundly changed by the experience and I'm afraid in a bad way. I suspect that's one of the main reasons people in many different cultures end up with similar constructs like "incel" - that is, the social experience through the screen is about the same everywhere and it primes the people to think about other people in a specific way.

dig1 2y ago
I've been diving for years and I learned that the deeper you go, there is a higher chance some of equipment can malfunction. Because of that I have to always plan or consider some backup solution. And that started to reflect on my daily activities - e.g. when I book a flight or a route, I put everything on paper, just in case all my devices die (which happened before).
- lazide 2y ago
  Two is one, and one is none. - military, skydivers, scuba divers (apparently), swat, many first responders.
nick7376182 2y ago
"used to" - did you stop paragliding? I'm a mid - P3 now.
eastbound 2y ago
Incels are lonely first, then addicted to the screen. It’s a self-feeding relationship but a balanced teen will always have someone reaching out, while the incel is lonely. The addiction to the screen comes because there is a void (lots of interesting social studies here). By the way, public announcement: Don’t forget to ring up your relatives, knock on your neighbor’s door and spend some time doing public service talking to weird people (after evaluating the risk). It goes a long way in releasing tensions.

gotts 2y ago

How do you think programming changes it?

tempodox 2y ago
Doing things systematically. Making use of any information as soon as it's available to minimize the number of decisions that have to be made at once. Organizing stuff into small, composable units. To contradict a sibling comment, I do not believe the world can be controlled, or that algorithms are a solution to everything. One important element of mastering programming (a world largely of pure logic) is to recognize how it differs from our human world.
rootusrootus 2y ago
Not OP, but I'll take a swing at this. I suspect that programming causes people to view the world as something which can be controlled with algorithms, and problems solved with algorithms. We joke about it on HN pretty regularly, how it seems like programmers have the most hubris of anyone, always thinking every problem can be neatly solved with a bit of logic.
lazide 2y ago
A tendency to systematize, formalize, and delegate/abstract/automate portions (or entirety) of problems IMO. A tendency to analyze and solve problems rationally. Even if unfortunately it is not at all a rational problem at the time. A tendency to (successfully) deep dive in a recursive fashion on problems. Ex: contractor is doing something weird, talk to the city inspector. City inspector refers to building code. Read building code. Work with contractor to bring up to code, or sic the appropriate regulatory authority on them. Etc. Similar to debugging something weird in someone else’s backend.
suoduandao3 2y ago
I've thought about this a lot. Short version, any sufficiently complex profession will have problems and associated solutions analogous to problems and solutions outside its domain. Therefore, the more deeply one understands a complex profession of that nature, the more likely one is to successfully apply lessons from that professional domain to problems outside it. Programming of course has peculiarities in that regard which color the kind of solutions one comes up with, eg a preoccupation with process and systems, linguistics, etc. For the long version you can check out my book on the subject, shameless plug: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henningsen-ebook/dp/B097N7QT47/ref= https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henni...

mmarian 2y ago

I've become a lot more obsessed about thinks making sense logically since I became a software engineer.

m463 2y ago

Hmm.. is it the same? I think some activities lead to internal focused changes, others face outwards. For me things like programming tend towards mostly affect my internal landscape, and something like dating would make me look outwards. (mostly)