4 ms·

As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar

As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar or char is left. Served either in ant sized cups or with milk to mask the horrendous taste. No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way. If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).

abc123abc123 2y ago
I find swedish coffee horrible! Italian coffee and espresso all the way, for the win! But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!
- ryan_lane 2y ago
  The US is a large place. Espresso in the US has likely had some of the most innovation in the world over the last 20 years. If you didn't find excellent coffee in the US then you were either in the middle of nowhere, or you didn't try. Similar with Sweden. Stockholm has many excellent coffee shops. Maybe you need to put more effort in.
tetris11 2y ago
As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it. That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.
- spyke112 2y ago
  Fun fact: there’s less caffeine in espresso than in filter coffee. [1] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    I thought espresso is something you order in quantity of 2 or 4, to be mixed into the regular coffee so it works. That's what I always do.
- cassepipe 2y ago
  And don't get me started on the "al dente" (understand not properly cooked) pasta cult
  - tetris11 2y ago
    YES. I'm sorry, but I like my pasta floppy please. The sheer bloated feeling I get after eating an otherwise perfectly prepared dish is nothing to joke about.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
oytis 2y ago
The audacity! Sure you have nice trains and welfare system, but claiming superiority over Italian coffee culture? I would prefer an espresso made on an Italian gas station at 2AM to a fancy Swedish roastery any time.
globular-toast 2y ago
Neither Swedish nor Italian, but I completely agree. It took me a long time to realise I don't actually like espresso. There is this perception that espresso is "better" than other coffee. I guess it's the shiny machines, the weird noises they make and the fact that most people can't make it at home. I always thought that home methods like cafetière, drip/filter etc. were like poor imitations of the real deal. I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item. It's still Starbucks but it's so much better than their "Americano". Unfortunately many will refuse to make it for you (presumably because it's more effort). It's not that espresso can't be good, but for most places this is the cheap, low effort, coffee-on-demand. And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same. Also, it really annoys me that if you order two drinks (like a café con leche in Spain) they'll split a double shot into two cups with one getting clearly more coffee than the other. It's a 50% chance you're going to get the weak brown milk.
- david-gpu 2y ago
  > And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same. Disclaimer: I'm a Spaniard. Most cafes in Spain serve a particularly noxious form of burnt coffee called "torrefacto" [0], which is made by mixing sugar with the beans while they are being excessively roasted. This introduces additional bitterness and ash to what would have already been overly roasted beans. For a country where coffee is often consumed multiple times a day, and where there are cafes in every corner, Spain has disappointingly terrible coffee. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefacto https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefacto
  - simiones 2y ago
    Maybe that explains an experience I had when I was at Kubecon in Valencia a few years ago. The free coffee was some of the worst coffee I've ever had. It was filtered coffee, so not even very strong, but very bitter and tasted deeply burned. It was hard to drink, and every attendee seemed to agree. The huge line at a Nespresso counter was also pretty good proof of the general feeling about the coffee. I'd rather have the brownish water they called coffee in the US office any day.
temptemptemp111 2y ago
[dead]
robin_reala 2y ago
Let me guess: you’re from Stockholm? Because you’re certainly not from my end of Sweden; until I moved here I’ve never tasted such a heavily roasted coffee as skånerost.
- ykonstant 2y ago
  I also found that people in Uppsala drink comically dark, over-concentrated coffee. However, there is a fantastic little shop there selling some excellent (if very expensive) beans; if I remember the name I'll post it.
  - unwind 2y ago
    Could it be ... Uppsala kafferosteri [1]? But they seem to specialize in just that, dark roasts, so perhaps not. [1]: https://uppsalakafferosteri.se/ https://uppsalakafferosteri.se/
    - ykonstant 2y ago
      It is Arrenius & Company.
krzyk 2y ago
For me espresso is the best coffee. I didn't like coffee before I tasted espresso on my first trip to Italy 15 years ago. Nowadays most of our offices in Poland have espresso machines, so I can taste it here also. What is funny is that when I was in our main office in US, they didn't have espresso machine, just some strange "coffee machine" that poured some coffee-like liquid. I also don't get the big buckets of coffee premade and poured to the mugs in some traditional American diners. In Poland the traditional way to prepare coffee is called "turkish style" (po turecku) - you put one or two spoons of ground coffee in glass or mug and pour hot water over it. I don't like that too much, but it tastes better than the US made version of coffee.
- brnt 2y ago
  I hate having to clean the crud from the mugs of my Polish in-laws. I have a perfectly fine French press!

abc123abc123 2y ago

I find swedish coffee horrible! Italian coffee and espresso all the way, for the win! But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!

ryan_lane 2y ago
The US is a large place. Espresso in the US has likely had some of the most innovation in the world over the last 20 years. If you didn't find excellent coffee in the US then you were either in the middle of nowhere, or you didn't try. Similar with Sweden. Stockholm has many excellent coffee shops. Maybe you need to put more effort in.

tetris11 2y ago

As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it. That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.

spyke112 2y ago
Fun fact: there’s less caffeine in espresso than in filter coffee. [1] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  I thought espresso is something you order in quantity of 2 or 4, to be mixed into the regular coffee so it works. That's what I always do.
cassepipe 2y ago
And don't get me started on the "al dente" (understand not properly cooked) pasta cult
- tetris11 2y ago
  YES. I'm sorry, but I like my pasta floppy please. The sheer bloated feeling I get after eating an otherwise perfectly prepared dish is nothing to joke about.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

oytis 2y ago

The audacity! Sure you have nice trains and welfare system, but claiming superiority over Italian coffee culture? I would prefer an espresso made on an Italian gas station at 2AM to a fancy Swedish roastery any time.

globular-toast 2y ago

Neither Swedish nor Italian, but I completely agree. It took me a long time to realise I don't actually like espresso. There is this perception that espresso is "better" than other coffee. I guess it's the shiny machines, the weird noises they make and the fact that most people can't make it at home. I always thought that home methods like cafetière, drip/filter etc. were like poor imitations of the real deal. I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item. It's still Starbucks but it's so much better than their "Americano". Unfortunately many will refuse to make it for you (presumably because it's more effort). It's not that espresso can't be good, but for most places this is the cheap, low effort, coffee-on-demand. And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same. Also, it really annoys me that if you order two drinks (like a café con leche in Spain) they'll split a double shot into two cups with one getting clearly more coffee than the other. It's a 50% chance you're going to get the weak brown milk.

david-gpu 2y ago
> And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same. Disclaimer: I'm a Spaniard. Most cafes in Spain serve a particularly noxious form of burnt coffee called "torrefacto" [0], which is made by mixing sugar with the beans while they are being excessively roasted. This introduces additional bitterness and ash to what would have already been overly roasted beans. For a country where coffee is often consumed multiple times a day, and where there are cafes in every corner, Spain has disappointingly terrible coffee. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefacto https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrefacto
- simiones 2y ago
  Maybe that explains an experience I had when I was at Kubecon in Valencia a few years ago. The free coffee was some of the worst coffee I've ever had. It was filtered coffee, so not even very strong, but very bitter and tasted deeply burned. It was hard to drink, and every attendee seemed to agree. The huge line at a Nespresso counter was also pretty good proof of the general feeling about the coffee. I'd rather have the brownish water they called coffee in the US office any day.

temptemptemp111 2y ago

[dead]

robin_reala 2y ago

Let me guess: you’re from Stockholm? Because you’re certainly not from my end of Sweden; until I moved here I’ve never tasted such a heavily roasted coffee as skånerost.

ykonstant 2y ago
I also found that people in Uppsala drink comically dark, over-concentrated coffee. However, there is a fantastic little shop there selling some excellent (if very expensive) beans; if I remember the name I'll post it.
- unwind 2y ago
  Could it be ... Uppsala kafferosteri [1]? But they seem to specialize in just that, dark roasts, so perhaps not. [1]: https://uppsalakafferosteri.se/ https://uppsalakafferosteri.se/
  - ykonstant 2y ago
    It is Arrenius & Company.

krzyk 2y ago

For me espresso is the best coffee. I didn't like coffee before I tasted espresso on my first trip to Italy 15 years ago. Nowadays most of our offices in Poland have espresso machines, so I can taste it here also. What is funny is that when I was in our main office in US, they didn't have espresso machine, just some strange "coffee machine" that poured some coffee-like liquid. I also don't get the big buckets of coffee premade and poured to the mugs in some traditional American diners. In Poland the traditional way to prepare coffee is called "turkish style" (po turecku) - you put one or two spoons of ground coffee in glass or mug and pour hot water over it. I don't like that too much, but it tastes better than the US made version of coffee.

brnt 2y ago
I hate having to clean the crud from the mugs of my Polish in-laws. I have a perfectly fine French press!