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As an Italian, if it manages to break into our market, it means that it's good stuff. Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions and coffee is

As an Italian, if it manages to break into our market, it means that it's good stuff. Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions and coffee is definitely one of them

automatic6131 2y ago
> coffee is definitely one of them Italians will say this, then put a moka pot on the stove for five minutes until it's boiled through, and serve you the blackest, most burnt tar imaginable - stuff that could qualify as road building material - and then turn around and insult American food tastes whilst they've skipped two meals in favor of cigarettes and the lowest quality wine. But that's okay, because they have some expensive olive oil in a ceramic bottle for the last two years. And you can't even accuse them of not having travelled enough, because half their young people are working across Europe, so they would know that there is better food out there in other countries - but they're doing that wine and cigarette diet so they remain ignorant and arrogant. They - you - are as bad as French people, but the rest of the world haven't discovered it yet.
- Tade0 2y ago
  I spent some years in Italy and can't agree. Their cheapest wines poured straight from the tap are still great compared to just about everything else.
- sjwod 2y ago
  This is a bit over the top and stereotypes/over-generalises... Italian food is genuinely good, but is now, in my opinion, also too beholden to traditions and tribalism (food must be prepared in this way and you are wrong otherwise), and I perceive a relative lack of openness to different cuisines compared to some other countries. Italian coffee is built on dark roasts of non-specialty (and often even Robusta) beans, which works well with milk-based drinks like cappuccinos but can also work well for espresso and moka brews too. Despite having a preference for lighter roasts I still enjoyed the coffee on my trip to Rome last year, and actually I would easily choose it over the big brand chains like Starbucks. What I find Italy is missing is the so-called 'third-wave', where light and medium roasts are preferred and higher quality (think specialty or single-origin, typically always Arabica) beans are typically used. I believe that this is partly due to the fact that espresso prices are regulated in many parts of Italy to be as low as €1-1.50 and so the business model just doesn't work unless the beans are cheap too.
- morsch 2y ago
  In terms of tobacco use, Italy is on par with the US, slightly lower than Sweden. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use It's also one of the world's top per capita consumers (and producer) of olive oil, so the chance of any given meal having old rancid olive oil in them is probably lower, rancidity being a function of throughout. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil Also, and I suppose that is subjective, Bialetti coffee can be delicious.
- bigfudge 2y ago
  And yet Italian diabetes rates (and life expectancy) are higher than the US.
- quotz 2y ago
  I would prefer having a coffee and a cigarette for lunch basking under the sun in Italy over eating hot pockets in a cubicle because I need a car to drive 30 mins to the nearest plaza that vaguely resembles a living breathing human settlement
filleokus 2y ago
As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar or char is left. Served either in ant sized cups or with milk to mask the horrendous taste. No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way. If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).
- abc123abc123 2y ago
  I find swedish coffee horrible! Italian coffee and espresso all the way, for the win! But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!
  - ryan_lane 2y ago
    The US is a large place. Espresso in the US has likely had some of the most innovation in the world over the last 20 years. If you didn't find excellent coffee in the US then you were either in the middle of nowhere, or you didn't try. Similar with Sweden. Stockholm has many excellent coffee shops. Maybe you need to put more effort in.
- tetris11 2y ago
  As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it. That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.
  - spyke112 2y ago
    Fun fact: there’s less caffeine in espresso than in filter coffee. [1] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo
jnsaff2 2y ago
I never appreciated coffee before I lived in Australia. The consistently excellent quality of coffee one got from any local cafe in Melbourne and Sydney was by far the highest I've seen anywhere in the world. Including Italy. The only Starbucks I ever saw there was at the cruise ship terminal in Sydney. I then moved to London and it was a very sad affair with coffee, I missed a good cup so much. Tho over the years they got more and more cafes that cared and had actually comparable coffee.
- dano 2y ago
  This! I was stunned by the quality and availability of good coffee down under. I figured it was a tea culture and wasn't that a mile of the mark.
  - Affric 2y ago
    Used to be a tea culture until post Second World War migration.
- sjm 2y ago
  London has good coffee, as well as NYC where I currently live. You just need to look for us Aussies behind the espresso machines :) Kiwis will do too.
  - quotz 2y ago
    NYC has not great coffee culture (everyones on their laptops) despite some cafes serving okay coffee like Devocion perhaps among others. The Balkans where I am from has completely turned on the third wave coffee and combined with the coffee culture its amazing. People have 2-3 coffees a day just chilling under the sun. NYC should be ashamed. London is much better
    - sjm 2y ago
      NYC doesn't have the time or space for the kind of coffee culture you're talking about, but the coffee itself is as good as anywhere else — not Devocion though, that's pretty bad IMHO. SEY is where you wanna go, or Black Fox or maybe Saltwater if you're in Manhattan.
hresvelgr 2y ago
> Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions Italian here. To those replying, this is the key takeaway. I think the poster means it'll take something insanely good for us to consider upending tradition. Not because we have the gold standard, but because we are so unbelievably stubborn and pig-headed :)
- tpm 2y ago
  I have to agree with other posters Italian coffee is not very good (probably second worst I've experienced in Europe), and since you didn't addopt all the good new coffee stuff from the last ~30 years, I don't understand why would you addopt this.
  - hresvelgr 2y ago
    Again, not saying we have good coffee. Our coffee is horrific. With that being said, the smell of coffee being torched in a Moka pot makes me nostalgic. While I recognise the taste is absolutely sub-standard compared to a single-origin brew carefully prepared, I still enjoy it. This falls in the category of: "people are allowed to like bad things."

As an Italian, if it manages to break into our market, it means that it's good stuff. Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions and coffee is definitely one of them

automatic6131 2y ago

> coffee is definitely one of them Italians will say this, then put a moka pot on the stove for five minutes until it's boiled through, and serve you the blackest, most burnt tar imaginable - stuff that could qualify as road building material - and then turn around and insult American food tastes whilst they've skipped two meals in favor of cigarettes and the lowest quality wine. But that's okay, because they have some expensive olive oil in a ceramic bottle for the last two years. And you can't even accuse them of not having travelled enough, because half their young people are working across Europe, so they would know that there is better food out there in other countries - but they're doing that wine and cigarette diet so they remain ignorant and arrogant. They - you - are as bad as French people, but the rest of the world haven't discovered it yet.

Tade0 2y ago
I spent some years in Italy and can't agree. Their cheapest wines poured straight from the tap are still great compared to just about everything else.
sjwod 2y ago
This is a bit over the top and stereotypes/over-generalises... Italian food is genuinely good, but is now, in my opinion, also too beholden to traditions and tribalism (food must be prepared in this way and you are wrong otherwise), and I perceive a relative lack of openness to different cuisines compared to some other countries. Italian coffee is built on dark roasts of non-specialty (and often even Robusta) beans, which works well with milk-based drinks like cappuccinos but can also work well for espresso and moka brews too. Despite having a preference for lighter roasts I still enjoyed the coffee on my trip to Rome last year, and actually I would easily choose it over the big brand chains like Starbucks. What I find Italy is missing is the so-called 'third-wave', where light and medium roasts are preferred and higher quality (think specialty or single-origin, typically always Arabica) beans are typically used. I believe that this is partly due to the fact that espresso prices are regulated in many parts of Italy to be as low as €1-1.50 and so the business model just doesn't work unless the beans are cheap too.
morsch 2y ago
In terms of tobacco use, Italy is on par with the US, slightly lower than Sweden. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use It's also one of the world's top per capita consumers (and producer) of olive oil, so the chance of any given meal having old rancid olive oil in them is probably lower, rancidity being a function of throughout. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil Also, and I suppose that is subjective, Bialetti coffee can be delicious.
bigfudge 2y ago
And yet Italian diabetes rates (and life expectancy) are higher than the US.
quotz 2y ago
I would prefer having a coffee and a cigarette for lunch basking under the sun in Italy over eating hot pockets in a cubicle because I need a car to drive 30 mins to the nearest plaza that vaguely resembles a living breathing human settlement

filleokus 2y ago

As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar or char is left. Served either in ant sized cups or with milk to mask the horrendous taste. No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way. If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).

abc123abc123 2y ago
I find swedish coffee horrible! Italian coffee and espresso all the way, for the win! But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!
- ryan_lane 2y ago
  The US is a large place. Espresso in the US has likely had some of the most innovation in the world over the last 20 years. If you didn't find excellent coffee in the US then you were either in the middle of nowhere, or you didn't try. Similar with Sweden. Stockholm has many excellent coffee shops. Maybe you need to put more effort in.
tetris11 2y ago
As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it. That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.
- spyke112 2y ago
  Fun fact: there’s less caffeine in espresso than in filter coffee. [1] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etnMr8oUSDo

jnsaff2 2y ago

I never appreciated coffee before I lived in Australia. The consistently excellent quality of coffee one got from any local cafe in Melbourne and Sydney was by far the highest I've seen anywhere in the world. Including Italy. The only Starbucks I ever saw there was at the cruise ship terminal in Sydney. I then moved to London and it was a very sad affair with coffee, I missed a good cup so much. Tho over the years they got more and more cafes that cared and had actually comparable coffee.

dano 2y ago
This! I was stunned by the quality and availability of good coffee down under. I figured it was a tea culture and wasn't that a mile of the mark.
- Affric 2y ago
  Used to be a tea culture until post Second World War migration.
sjm 2y ago
London has good coffee, as well as NYC where I currently live. You just need to look for us Aussies behind the espresso machines :) Kiwis will do too.
- quotz 2y ago
  NYC has not great coffee culture (everyones on their laptops) despite some cafes serving okay coffee like Devocion perhaps among others. The Balkans where I am from has completely turned on the third wave coffee and combined with the coffee culture its amazing. People have 2-3 coffees a day just chilling under the sun. NYC should be ashamed. London is much better
  - sjm 2y ago
    NYC doesn't have the time or space for the kind of coffee culture you're talking about, but the coffee itself is as good as anywhere else — not Devocion though, that's pretty bad IMHO. SEY is where you wanna go, or Black Fox or maybe Saltwater if you're in Manhattan.

hresvelgr 2y ago

> Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions Italian here. To those replying, this is the key takeaway. I think the poster means it'll take something insanely good for us to consider upending tradition. Not because we have the gold standard, but because we are so unbelievably stubborn and pig-headed :)

tpm 2y ago
I have to agree with other posters Italian coffee is not very good (probably second worst I've experienced in Europe), and since you didn't addopt all the good new coffee stuff from the last ~30 years, I don't understand why would you addopt this.
- hresvelgr 2y ago
  Again, not saying we have good coffee. Our coffee is horrific. With that being said, the smell of coffee being torched in a Moka pot makes me nostalgic. While I recognise the taste is absolutely sub-standard compared to a single-origin brew carefully prepared, I still enjoy it. This falls in the category of: "people are allowed to like bad things."