4 ms·

$400k for Senior is an outlier. According to Levels.fyi - and my personal contacts - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-are

$400k for Senior is an outlier. According to Levels.fyi - and my personal contacts - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-area https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-fra... Median TC - something just-south of $300k TC (not salary) is more likely. Furthermore, the higher you go, a greater proportion comes as RSUs, not cash - even if it was $400k TC, a good chunk of that is money you literally can't spend for a couple of years.

blehn 2y ago
Vesting for each grant starts at one year and is monthly after that. So you're really only waiting one year for the first big chunk of stock to be liquid. 400k TC at Google means that you have 400k (pre-tax) liquid at the end of the year (depending on the stock price, which has historically gone up).
- beacon294 2y ago
  Where is vesting monthly versus quarterly or annual?
  - blehn 2y ago
    IIRC the vest schedule is 25% at one year and then 75% over the next three years in monthly installments.
    - beacon294 2y ago
      I have heard of both monthly and quarterly. Monthly is obviously better, I am curious what companies vest the stock monthly.
Aurornis 2y ago
RSUs aren't really a big deal due to the way it vests. But you're right that the TC of the average Google (or even FAANG) job has become somewhat mythical on the internet lately. I'm in a Slack where people have been asking about offers and TC for a long time. There are a lot of disappointed people who think they're walking into $500-600K job offers only to realize that they're "only" getting $300K from multiple companies. Honestly quite frustrating, given that $300K with excellent benefits is an incredible job offer, but these people have been primed for disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.
- xvector 2y ago
  As a counterpoint, $500k+ is definitely achievable if you're interviewing as an L5 at a FAANG. It has been for a few years, actually. Of course you'll need to negotiate, maybe have a few counteroffers, but it's doable. I get being disappointed about $300k. Many companies are offering that for non-seniors (Google L4 equivalent) now. I distinctly recall TikTok offering well north of $300k cash for just 2 YoE a few years ago, and Meta offers have risen similarly. I'd also be pretty sad if I interviewed elsewhere as an L5 and got offered less than what I made as a 2 YoE L4 (and many years ago, prior to inflation at that.)
xvector 2y ago
Oh dude, Levels is so out of date! Don't actually use it for serious negotiation. Levels systemically removes "outlier" offers, and people with good offers don't post until they leave 2 years later. So there's a huge lagging+dampening factor when you use Levels. It should be more of a "minimum offer" calibration. $500k for senior (L5) is kind of the expected offer these days. If you are interviewing at FAANG you are doing a huge disservice by using Levels and settling for $300k when you can pretty easily get $500k. I joined a FAANG a couple years ago at $550k TC or so at 4 YoE for senior. It's grown to about $950k due to stock growth. I'm not sure what you mean by "I can't touch the money for a few years," I get a portion of it every few months.
- beacon294 2y ago
  Whet is the typical faang vesting cadence in your experience and are refreshers at meets typically near 25% of the initial grant?
  - xvector 2y ago
    Refreshers at meets are typically 25% of the "standard" grant (so your comp will go down after 4 years unless you have outstanding performance or your director gives you an Additional Equity grant) Vesting cadence is typically quarterly or monthly.
    - beacon294 2y ago
      If they are at 25% for meets, why will your comp go down? 25% times 4 == 100%
      - xvector 2y ago
        Most people don't join with the "standard" grant, they negotiate it up quite significantly. Refreshers only being you up to the "standard" target TC (as defined by the company). So after their initial grant fully vests, most engineers will see their comp drop by a couple hundred k, even with refreshers. This is a huge contributing factor to the low retention at big tech - it's why most people leave by the time their initial grant runs out.

blehn 2y ago

Vesting for each grant starts at one year and is monthly after that. So you're really only waiting one year for the first big chunk of stock to be liquid. 400k TC at Google means that you have 400k (pre-tax) liquid at the end of the year (depending on the stock price, which has historically gone up).

beacon294 2y ago
Where is vesting monthly versus quarterly or annual?
- blehn 2y ago
  IIRC the vest schedule is 25% at one year and then 75% over the next three years in monthly installments.
  - beacon294 2y ago
    I have heard of both monthly and quarterly. Monthly is obviously better, I am curious what companies vest the stock monthly.

Aurornis 2y ago

RSUs aren't really a big deal due to the way it vests. But you're right that the TC of the average Google (or even FAANG) job has become somewhat mythical on the internet lately. I'm in a Slack where people have been asking about offers and TC for a long time. There are a lot of disappointed people who think they're walking into $500-600K job offers only to realize that they're "only" getting $300K from multiple companies. Honestly quite frustrating, given that $300K with excellent benefits is an incredible job offer, but these people have been primed for disappointment due to unrealistic expectations.

xvector 2y ago
As a counterpoint, $500k+ is definitely achievable if you're interviewing as an L5 at a FAANG. It has been for a few years, actually. Of course you'll need to negotiate, maybe have a few counteroffers, but it's doable. I get being disappointed about $300k. Many companies are offering that for non-seniors (Google L4 equivalent) now. I distinctly recall TikTok offering well north of $300k cash for just 2 YoE a few years ago, and Meta offers have risen similarly. I'd also be pretty sad if I interviewed elsewhere as an L5 and got offered less than what I made as a 2 YoE L4 (and many years ago, prior to inflation at that.)

xvector 2y ago

Oh dude, Levels is so out of date! Don't actually use it for serious negotiation. Levels systemically removes "outlier" offers, and people with good offers don't post until they leave 2 years later. So there's a huge lagging+dampening factor when you use Levels. It should be more of a "minimum offer" calibration. $500k for senior (L5) is kind of the expected offer these days. If you are interviewing at FAANG you are doing a huge disservice by using Levels and settling for $300k when you can pretty easily get $500k. I joined a FAANG a couple years ago at $550k TC or so at 4 YoE for senior. It's grown to about $950k due to stock growth. I'm not sure what you mean by "I can't touch the money for a few years," I get a portion of it every few months.

beacon294 2y ago
Whet is the typical faang vesting cadence in your experience and are refreshers at meets typically near 25% of the initial grant?
- xvector 2y ago
  Refreshers at meets are typically 25% of the "standard" grant (so your comp will go down after 4 years unless you have outstanding performance or your director gives you an Additional Equity grant) Vesting cadence is typically quarterly or monthly.
  - beacon294 2y ago
    If they are at 25% for meets, why will your comp go down? 25% times 4 == 100%
    - xvector 2y ago
      Most people don't join with the "standard" grant, they negotiate it up quite significantly. Refreshers only being you up to the "standard" target TC (as defined by the company). So after their initial grant fully vests, most engineers will see their comp drop by a couple hundred k, even with refreshers. This is a huge contributing factor to the low retention at big tech - it's why most people leave by the time their initial grant runs out.