4 ms·

Time to set up my own Matrix/XMPP server.

stevenicr 2y ago
Please do. I have spent several days the past 2 weeks trying to get another one setup. Somehow the docs are worse today than they were a year or so ago. As far as I can tell help with issues installing/running is still only done in the chat rooms, which is great if people have the right answer at that very moment.. however a basic phpbb forum or bbpress from 20 years ago would be a better experience. We definitely need more people installing it and putting out info on what what works and how to do things since so much of it left to draconion things like postgres docs and nginx docs - which are not great either. I think I have a new one setup and running, but the complexities of nginx and a separate domain for the element web has put me off another week at least (and being asking to switch support chat rooms since it's now not a synapse issue it's something else) I will say it's pretty great when it's running (for a long while, pruning and vacuuming and a spinning / non-ssd drive have led to my previous install being canned)
- Arathorn 2y ago
  which instructions have you been following? they should not have regressed…
  - stevenicr 2y ago
    I saved some of the commands and urls I needed to go through the docs: https://globaladvancedmedia.com/weblog/2024/matrix-synapse-2024-install-one-a/ https://globaladvancedmedia.com/weblog/2024/matrix-synapse-2... (can update that with more info given time) I'd be happy to record video of the processes to see the confusion I end up running into if it would help make docs better for the community. I started with the matrix-synapse and got lost in nginx configs then went to other websites instructions to try to patch it up to work - and to the synapse chat and then to caddy then back to nginx and then wishing there was forums instead of chat - and wish I could pay someone I could trust to help but you can't offer money in the chat - which is a good rule - but I don't know, haven't gotten to the part where I test the options in element and such yet, so much. I did have a running system for over a year that I put together on debian 10 - so I know it's possible.. just for me it's like 1 out of 3 attempts to install on a new server, maybe I'm just not cut out for nginx / caddy / certbot and the like, I don't know why they all seem so hard and working with tech help via phpbb forums 20 years ago seemed like a better experience.
- brokenmachine 2y ago
  https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy
fifteen1506 2y ago
XMPP seems better since usage of GPG based encryption is "standard".
- jamesponddotco 2y ago
  I'd say OMEMO[1] is the standard for XMPP these days, not OTR/PGP. I switched my wife, family, and a few friends over to XMPP. Aside from the lack of "stickers" in Conversations and Dino, they seem to be doing okay[2]. [1]: https://conversations.im/omemo/ https://conversations.im/omemo/ [2]: But then again, this is the only way to reach me, so maybe they just don't complain to me directly.
  - fifteen1506 2y ago
    Oops! Appreciate the correction!
ai_what 2y ago
I think one of the problems is that they'll just ban the apps from the app stores if they don't comply. Including Matrix clients. Tech savvy people might be able to compile/sideload/apk download (etc.) their way around it. But it's very difficult to get friends that you're talking with to do the same, when they don't care or don't know how to. So all your data will just be scanned on your friend's side.
- rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  So we are basically fucked.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Thank goodness Big Tech cares so much about our privacy. They really stood up for us, by doing absolutely nothing in the face of surveillance and enrolling themselves in hidden warrantless compliance programs. Good on them, really, a standup job all around. Next up: Big Tech Plays Victim Card, Insists They Would Have Done Better In Hypothetical Universe Where They Don't Propose The Same Thing
  - M95D 2y ago
    If you live in a walled garden, then yes.
jrexilius 2y ago
An alternative approach I am working on is simply doing the encryption outside of the phone. Yes this requires a second device, but it allows you to do true E2E hardware encryption and still use twitter or whatsapp or whatever platform. With this appraoch Apple, Google or the EU government cant really stop you. [edit-to-add] obvious downside to this model is that your friends then need to have the same type of device as well, so it's kinda apple-to-oranges comparison...
betaby 2y ago
It could be dangerous in Germany, there were posts how police raided XMPP hosters.
- fifteen1506 2y ago
  Link? Encryption is client-side. XMPP should be able to comply with the police providing metadata.
- fifteen1506 2y ago
  Link? Encryption is client-side. XMPP servers should be able to comply with the police providing metadata.
  - betaby 2y ago
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/german-police-accused-of-carrying-out-some-pretty-stupid-raids/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/german-poli...

Please do. I have spent several days the past 2 weeks trying to get another one setup. Somehow the docs are worse today than they were a year or so ago. As far as I can tell help with issues installing/running is still only done in the chat rooms, which is great if people have the right answer at that very moment.. however a basic phpbb forum or bbpress from 20 years ago would be a better experience. We definitely need more people installing it and putting out info on what what works and how to do things since so much of it left to draconion things like postgres docs and nginx docs - which are not great either. I think I have a new one setup and running, but the complexities of nginx and a separate domain for the element web has put me off another week at least (and being asking to switch support chat rooms since it's now not a synapse issue it's something else) I will say it's pretty great when it's running (for a long while, pruning and vacuuming and a spinning / non-ssd drive have led to my previous install being canned)

Arathorn 2y ago
which instructions have you been following? they should not have regressed…
- stevenicr 2y ago
  I saved some of the commands and urls I needed to go through the docs: https://globaladvancedmedia.com/weblog/2024/matrix-synapse-2024-install-one-a/ https://globaladvancedmedia.com/weblog/2024/matrix-synapse-2... (can update that with more info given time) I'd be happy to record video of the processes to see the confusion I end up running into if it would help make docs better for the community. I started with the matrix-synapse and got lost in nginx configs then went to other websites instructions to try to patch it up to work - and to the synapse chat and then to caddy then back to nginx and then wishing there was forums instead of chat - and wish I could pay someone I could trust to help but you can't offer money in the chat - which is a good rule - but I don't know, haven't gotten to the part where I test the options in element and such yet, so much. I did have a running system for over a year that I put together on debian 10 - so I know it's possible.. just for me it's like 1 out of 3 attempts to install on a new server, maybe I'm just not cut out for nginx / caddy / certbot and the like, I don't know why they all seem so hard and working with tech help via phpbb forums 20 years ago seemed like a better experience.
brokenmachine 2y ago
https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

fifteen1506 2y ago

XMPP seems better since usage of GPG based encryption is "standard".

jamesponddotco 2y ago
I'd say OMEMO[1] is the standard for XMPP these days, not OTR/PGP. I switched my wife, family, and a few friends over to XMPP. Aside from the lack of "stickers" in Conversations and Dino, they seem to be doing okay[2]. [1]: https://conversations.im/omemo/ https://conversations.im/omemo/ [2]: But then again, this is the only way to reach me, so maybe they just don't complain to me directly.
- fifteen1506 2y ago
  Oops! Appreciate the correction!

ai_what 2y ago

I think one of the problems is that they'll just ban the apps from the app stores if they don't comply. Including Matrix clients. Tech savvy people might be able to compile/sideload/apk download (etc.) their way around it. But it's very difficult to get friends that you're talking with to do the same, when they don't care or don't know how to. So all your data will just be scanned on your friend's side.

rdm_blackhole 2y ago
So we are basically fucked.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Thank goodness Big Tech cares so much about our privacy. They really stood up for us, by doing absolutely nothing in the face of surveillance and enrolling themselves in hidden warrantless compliance programs. Good on them, really, a standup job all around. Next up: Big Tech Plays Victim Card, Insists They Would Have Done Better In Hypothetical Universe Where They Don't Propose The Same Thing
- M95D 2y ago
  If you live in a walled garden, then yes.

jrexilius 2y ago

An alternative approach I am working on is simply doing the encryption outside of the phone. Yes this requires a second device, but it allows you to do true E2E hardware encryption and still use twitter or whatsapp or whatever platform. With this appraoch Apple, Google or the EU government cant really stop you. [edit-to-add] obvious downside to this model is that your friends then need to have the same type of device as well, so it's kinda apple-to-oranges comparison...

betaby 2y ago

It could be dangerous in Germany, there were posts how police raided XMPP hosters.

fifteen1506 2y ago
Link? Encryption is client-side. XMPP should be able to comply with the police providing metadata.
fifteen1506 2y ago
Link? Encryption is client-side. XMPP servers should be able to comply with the police providing metadata.
- betaby 2y ago
  https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/german-police-accused-of-carrying-out-some-pretty-stupid-raids/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/german-poli...