4 ms·

I think the issue at hand is yes you can enforce this at the family level. However unless high maturity / self awareness the kid will struggle if his peers all

I think the issue at hand is yes you can enforce this at the family level. However unless high maturity / self awareness the kid will struggle if his peers all have phones. This needs to be a campaign pushed at the school or even county level.

playingalong 2y ago
Yep. Their class at school has a WhatsApp or similar group chat.
- philomath_mn 2y ago
  We can fire up WhatApp on desktop or tablet -- the constant access is the biggest issue I have with smartphones.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    Can they? Aren't PC apps second-tier citizens of WhatsApp world, requiring regular reauthentication with your phone?
darkhorse222 2y ago
Yeah there's discussion about this in scientific articles I've read, where at a certain point the social circle exists on these apps, and by a single individual removing themselves they are forced to effectively choose isolation. I experienced it myself when I deleted instagram. I realized that certain friendships that had been thriving on that channel didn't flow as well outside it, via texting for example. So I redownloaded and set a screen time limit and I'm calling that good enough.
- skydhash 2y ago
  > I realized that certain friendships that had been thriving on that channel didn't flow as well outside it, via texting for example. I think it's a strain to call that friendship. Communication channels don't matter in case of friendship. I may text, call, email, etc... and it's all good. But it being exclusive to a specific platform is more a social circle or a club as you said.
  - jacobr1 2y ago
    I had this happen when I got rid of facebook years ago. I just lost touch with certain groups that were going to the movies or out for drinks or whatever. I just wasn't aware things were happening. Occasionally I'd get "where are you?" texts. No big loss, as I had other much closer groups where the communication mechanism matters less and varies, but I can imagine it could be isolating for some without that.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    Eh, yes and no. Let's say I'm in a group of 6 close friends and every year we have 20 poker nights, 4 barbecues, and attend 2 sports events or concerts. If I decide I don't like poker and I'm not going to attend the poker nights - my friends will still welcome me to the barbecues and sports events. We'd still be friends. But they're not going to cancel poker night. And if at poker night Bob tells the other guys how proud he is his daughter Jenny has gotten accepted to the fancy college she applied to - nobody's going to summarise that in an e-mail to me. We'll still be friends - but I'll be spending more time alone, and the social fabric won't be quite as tightly knit.
    - skydhash 2y ago
      > nobody's going to summarise that in an e-mail to me. You don't need to know everything that's happening in your friends' life. They may want to share some news and it'd be ok to not know if you were not present and you haven't heard from other channels. Every now and then, you call them and ask them what's news and how everything's going. I liked Facebook when it was about getting status updates from a friend. It was blogging for people that did not know how to set up a wordpress website. Then it became...something else. > We'll still be friends - but I'll be spending more time alone Social activities are not the same as social platforms. And as for me, I'm not forcing myself to attend events and use platforms I don't like just to not be alone.
philomath_mn 2y ago
Agree, won't be easy -- he already has many peers with phones. But we have a lot of rules like that (e.g. no unsupervised YouTube use, wear helmets on the bike, etc) and he lives an otherwise well-provisioned life -- I think we'll work something out.
- sillysaurusx 2y ago
  I’m amazed no one is pushing back on this. I respect your decision as a parent — it’s your decision — but not letting them have a phone until 16 or privacy in their YouTube sounds miserable for them. I would be, but everyone is different I suppose. In contrast, I was watching gore videos by the time I was 13. I think I turned out ok. We’ll see if it’s survivorship bias, but personally, I plan to give our daughter Kess most of the freedom she’ll want. She’ll figure it out. The worst situation would be for her to develop feelings for someone and not trust her parents with that info. I suspect restricting smartphone usage is exactly how to end up in that situation.
  - citizenkeen 2y ago
    The sooner my kid learns someone is always watching, the better.
    - sillysaurusx 2y ago
      Yes. But, having the freedom to watch something and decide for yourself is a different question. 16 is two years short of military age, and old enough to pay taxes on your income.
      - brewdad 2y ago
        16 does seem late for a first phone and likely they will find the phone necessary by the time their child reaches high school (age 14). Still, I appreciate the goal of trying to protect their child from the always connected lifestyle until they have some mental tools and life experience to understand and manage it. My kid is college age now and a couple years ahead of the first iPad generation. There is a huge difference in how those kids handle the internet even though they are nearly the same age.

playingalong 2y ago

Yep. Their class at school has a WhatsApp or similar group chat.

philomath_mn 2y ago
We can fire up WhatApp on desktop or tablet -- the constant access is the biggest issue I have with smartphones.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Can they? Aren't PC apps second-tier citizens of WhatsApp world, requiring regular reauthentication with your phone?

darkhorse222 2y ago

Yeah there's discussion about this in scientific articles I've read, where at a certain point the social circle exists on these apps, and by a single individual removing themselves they are forced to effectively choose isolation. I experienced it myself when I deleted instagram. I realized that certain friendships that had been thriving on that channel didn't flow as well outside it, via texting for example. So I redownloaded and set a screen time limit and I'm calling that good enough.

skydhash 2y ago
> I realized that certain friendships that had been thriving on that channel didn't flow as well outside it, via texting for example. I think it's a strain to call that friendship. Communication channels don't matter in case of friendship. I may text, call, email, etc... and it's all good. But it being exclusive to a specific platform is more a social circle or a club as you said.
- jacobr1 2y ago
  I had this happen when I got rid of facebook years ago. I just lost touch with certain groups that were going to the movies or out for drinks or whatever. I just wasn't aware things were happening. Occasionally I'd get "where are you?" texts. No big loss, as I had other much closer groups where the communication mechanism matters less and varies, but I can imagine it could be isolating for some without that.
- michaelt 2y ago
  Eh, yes and no. Let's say I'm in a group of 6 close friends and every year we have 20 poker nights, 4 barbecues, and attend 2 sports events or concerts. If I decide I don't like poker and I'm not going to attend the poker nights - my friends will still welcome me to the barbecues and sports events. We'd still be friends. But they're not going to cancel poker night. And if at poker night Bob tells the other guys how proud he is his daughter Jenny has gotten accepted to the fancy college she applied to - nobody's going to summarise that in an e-mail to me. We'll still be friends - but I'll be spending more time alone, and the social fabric won't be quite as tightly knit.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    > nobody's going to summarise that in an e-mail to me. You don't need to know everything that's happening in your friends' life. They may want to share some news and it'd be ok to not know if you were not present and you haven't heard from other channels. Every now and then, you call them and ask them what's news and how everything's going. I liked Facebook when it was about getting status updates from a friend. It was blogging for people that did not know how to set up a wordpress website. Then it became...something else. > We'll still be friends - but I'll be spending more time alone Social activities are not the same as social platforms. And as for me, I'm not forcing myself to attend events and use platforms I don't like just to not be alone.

philomath_mn 2y ago

Agree, won't be easy -- he already has many peers with phones. But we have a lot of rules like that (e.g. no unsupervised YouTube use, wear helmets on the bike, etc) and he lives an otherwise well-provisioned life -- I think we'll work something out.

sillysaurusx 2y ago
I’m amazed no one is pushing back on this. I respect your decision as a parent — it’s your decision — but not letting them have a phone until 16 or privacy in their YouTube sounds miserable for them. I would be, but everyone is different I suppose. In contrast, I was watching gore videos by the time I was 13. I think I turned out ok. We’ll see if it’s survivorship bias, but personally, I plan to give our daughter Kess most of the freedom she’ll want. She’ll figure it out. The worst situation would be for her to develop feelings for someone and not trust her parents with that info. I suspect restricting smartphone usage is exactly how to end up in that situation.
- citizenkeen 2y ago
  The sooner my kid learns someone is always watching, the better.
  - sillysaurusx 2y ago
    Yes. But, having the freedom to watch something and decide for yourself is a different question. 16 is two years short of military age, and old enough to pay taxes on your income.
    - brewdad 2y ago
      16 does seem late for a first phone and likely they will find the phone necessary by the time their child reaches high school (age 14). Still, I appreciate the goal of trying to protect their child from the always connected lifestyle until they have some mental tools and life experience to understand and manage it. My kid is college age now and a couple years ahead of the first iPad generation. There is a huge difference in how those kids handle the internet even though they are nearly the same age.